The oil is out of he cylinder. I did hammer from the other end. It didn't budge either direction. Both sides of the pin are mushroomed a little from me hitting it. I figured if I got the pin to move at all, I'd grind those high points off and push the pin out. Thanks for your help and comments.
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Case 580se GLAND NUT won't budge!!!!!
- Thread starter BY5260
- Start date
The oil is out of he cylinder. I did hammer from the other end. It didn't budge either direction. Both sides of the pin are mushroomed a little from me hitting it. I figured if I got the pin to move at all, I'd grind those high points off and push the pin out. Thanks for your help and comments.
The end of the cylinder is in pretty good shape. I can move it back and forth between the leg on that end. I have a space of about 3/8" that I can move the cylinder and access the inside of the leg. I'm going to try getting a cute off blade in there and getting that cylinder out of the way. I'll then work to punch the remainder of the pin outwards. Thanks for your comments and help.
I'm going to give that peening process more effort. I need to get the pin removed first so I have access to the full diameter of the cylinder. I'll update as I proceed. Thanks for your comment and help.
I'm not sure I could lift much more than the downward force. I'm 200#'s but the 10" electrical conduit I was using for a cheater probably weighed around 70#. I would have been wise to follow your instructions though as I wouldn't have ended up on the ground. Thanks for your comments and help.
I've freed smaller pins like that one by taking my big air hammer with a flat faced bit and hammering the ever living schit out of the end in every direction I can get at it. If you're lucky it'll break the rust loose inside and and you can get it out. I've also welded bars on the end so you can try to twist the pin while you're hammering also. If that fails, I get out the Broco torch and pop a hole through it. They usually can be push out with a finger after that, only at the cost of you taking a molten slag bath.
Greyson
Greyson
I had a bucket pin that had been stuck fast for decades, I did use the big honkin propane weed burner, heated up the ears and all on the bucket. If you hit it with a 16# sledge it'd ring like a bell, I heated it for maybe 5 minutes with the big propane fire and then a rap with an 8# sledge left a cloud of rust dust in the air and the hit was a dull thud, ground off the flare and in a few raps, the pin came right out. I had used the oxy torch before but the weed burner has a ton more heat. Maybe a rosebud would compete.
A quick check shows a rosebud at 150,000 btu and and a weed burner at 500,000 btu, now this doesn't seem quite right, I'd be willing to get with a warm propane tank you could get 250,000 without trouble, some of the older opd valves would shut down at high flow rates but with the new big grilles and such, the flow rate has been increased. 500,000 would likely need a 100lb tank or 2 smaller ones at least.
A quick check shows a rosebud at 150,000 btu and and a weed burner at 500,000 btu, now this doesn't seem quite right, I'd be willing to get with a warm propane tank you could get 250,000 without trouble, some of the older opd valves would shut down at high flow rates but with the new big grilles and such, the flow rate has been increased. 500,000 would likely need a 100lb tank or 2 smaller ones at least.
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Welder Dave
Senior Member
BTU's are misleading. A rosebud could heat the pin enough to melt it. A weed burner you'd be there for a long time get it that hot. You'd also heat everything around the pin just as hot which has a negative effect. Oxy/acetylene flame is up to about 6300F degs. Air/propane flame about 3500F but a weed burner doesn't have a concentrated flame. A rosebud uses several concentrated flames to heat a larger area but is still a relatively small area. Weed burners are great for heating entire assemblies. Rosebuds are better for heating something like a pin. Welding on a pin could work really good too, the same as it works for removing broken bolts.
Deon
Senior Member
I had the very same problem on my Deere 3 years ago. I cut the pin off with a 14" chop saw by placing the blade between the rod end and the pad ears. I kept the garden hose on drenching the pin down as I was cutting to keep things cool so the blade didn't glaze over. Took about a 1/2 hr per side. With the rod out of the way I was then able to burn out the two ends of the pin with an acetylene cutting torch.
Tinkerer
Senior Member
Couldn't you remove the hoses from the cylinder and remove the pin on the barrel end ? Then flip the cylinder over and give the it good peening on the part you can't get at now. I would think you could anchor the barrel in that position and remove the gland nut. A little more work but you wouldn't have to remove the rod pin.
My solution was similar
I wanted to update my original post in case someone else refers to it in the future.
I tried EVERYTHING to get his nut removed. Including peening it with a hammer, surrounding it in dry ice for a day and multiple attempts with power tools. None of them broke this nut free.
I finally took a 8" cutting blade on my grinder and cut the pin in order to free the hydraulic cylinder. I'd already ordered a replacement pin.
After I removed the cylinder, I took it to a local hydraulic shop. I explained the problem to him. He told he he'd removed hundreds to them and was confident he could get it free. The downside was; he was swamped in work and told me it would take up to 3 weeks to get it done. I had no other option so I left it. To my surprise, he called the following morning and told me it was done. He told me it was one of the most stubborn he'd encountered but he'd completed it. He told me he had a special vise for them and used a punch. I paid the minimum shop fee of around $100 and brought it home and replaced the seals. I should of done this 3 weeks earlier. Probably the best $100 I've ever spent.
Thanks to all those who offered their suggestions and help.
I wanted to update my original post in case someone else refers to it in the future.
I tried EVERYTHING to get his nut removed. Including peening it with a hammer, surrounding it in dry ice for a day and multiple attempts with power tools. None of them broke this nut free.
I finally took a 8" cutting blade on my grinder and cut the pin in order to free the hydraulic cylinder. I'd already ordered a replacement pin.
After I removed the cylinder, I took it to a local hydraulic shop. I explained the problem to him. He told he he'd removed hundreds to them and was confident he could get it free. The downside was; he was swamped in work and told me it would take up to 3 weeks to get it done. I had no other option so I left it. To my surprise, he called the following morning and told me it was done. He told me it was one of the most stubborn he'd encountered but he'd completed it. He told me he had a special vise for them and used a punch. I paid the minimum shop fee of around $100 and brought it home and replaced the seals. I should of done this 3 weeks earlier. Probably the best $100 I've ever spent.
Thanks to all those who offered their suggestions and help.
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Bertrrr
Well-Known Member
Don't know if you got this thing out or not but I had a similar issue and got it to free up with a Pipe wrench and hammer. might need someone to hold the pipe wrench in place while you hit the end of with a sledge , 12 or 16 lb is best , the sudden impact with the sledge will make it give , would also heat it up evenly with a torch before hitting it. post your progress .
as to your other issue with the pin , if there is room to cut on each side of the cylinder insert, cut it on each side , this will give you space enough to work from the inside out , again heat the hell out of the metal surrounding what is left of the pin, get it cherry red and it will come out for you hope it works . good luck
as to your other issue with the pin , if there is room to cut on each side of the cylinder insert, cut it on each side , this will give you space enough to work from the inside out , again heat the hell out of the metal surrounding what is left of the pin, get it cherry red and it will come out for you hope it works . good luck
Lawrence M Paige
Member
Hi Guys,
Noobie here. I know this posting is old, but still very helpful. I did my seals on an old 580 Super E. I read thru this thread and tried it all. I finally ended up with a similar method of Bertrrr's except I welded a plate on and then whacked it with a sledge a few times and it finally broke loose. A little rough, but it cleans up nicely. See below
Noobie here. I know this posting is old, but still very helpful. I did my seals on an old 580 Super E. I read thru this thread and tried it all. I finally ended up with a similar method of Bertrrr's except I welded a plate on and then whacked it with a sledge a few times and it finally broke loose. A little rough, but it cleans up nicely. See below
Hello Lawrence,
Thanks for passing on your solution, great explanation and pictures.
Lawrence M Paige
Member
The lock screw hole is 50% shared with the gland nut and the cylinder. You can see the half moons on each part in the first image. The Case manual suggest that a new gland nut (if/when you need one) does not have threads. This is because we (you and I) own the location of that lock screw. So, you would install the new gland nut until tight, then drill and tap a new thread to keep it from turning. INMHO, I would rather tack weld it in place so I could grind off a little bump to remove the gland nut and not have to worry about a broken lock screw. BTW, one of my (6) cylinders returned to their original locking screw position after adding new seals. This told me that they were installed/replaced way too tight before the lock screw holes were drilled.
Well that is a pickle! I've done six three had lock screws and three were overtight, backed them off about 1/8th turn to get the screw hole to align and all seemed happy. Even a smidge loose is sealed but it might wobble on the threads so I'm good with just nicely seated. Maybe yours were put on by Sven during his first day at work. Guutndtight.
I personally wouldn't tack weld it, my screws are just short not overly jammed in place machine screws, the ones that were present got a rap on the head with a ball peen hammer and backed out without any real force at all. Even re used with a nice dab of copper anti sieze.
I personally wouldn't tack weld it, my screws are just short not overly jammed in place machine screws, the ones that were present got a rap on the head with a ball peen hammer and backed out without any real force at all. Even re used with a nice dab of copper anti sieze.
This method works! Have used it many times when I was in a field service truck. When done just cut the welds and grind gland smooth. Keep the special tool for the next one.
Bigdigger
Member
I just did a bunch of cylinders on my 580k and the peening method was the only way I could get the gland nuts off. I used a spanner wrench on both sets of holes outer rim and face of the gland nut with heat to no avail. I finally read about the peening method, tried it thinking it was bs and what do you know it worked perfect! Now as far as the piston bolt thats a whole different ball of wax. Still working to get one of them out. I've used heat breaker bars impact gun still no go.
Tinkerer
Senior Member
Hit the bolt-head several times minimum with a two pound or bigger hammer.
It will unscrew then.
It will unscrew then.
alrman
Senior Member
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I've said this many times, but you will need to heat the retaining bolt with till almost a dull red to make the Loctite release it's hold.
Use 1" drive sockets & a good quality breaker bar & at least 6' cheater pipe.
It goes without saying, you need something solid to hold the rod while undoing the bolt.