580 superl dies under load

ChrisB18 · Jun 17, 2019

Im working on a 580 super l that dies under any kind of load....first i put a hyd gauge on pump outlet it stays at 0 psi if your not using anything. Turbo spins free no cuts in any air hoses also almost no smoke except on start up. New fuel filters and air filters. New suction hose from tank to transfer pump. Groff tractor installed a new injection pump which didnt seem to fix anything. I believe timing is ok because it fires right up. I made a banjo bolt with a test fitting right into the inlet of injection pump pressure is bouncing quickly from 8 to 30 psi. I am running out of ideas and i also dont want to blame the injection pump but it acts like the govenor isnt working. Any ideas would be appreciated

Vetech63 · Jun 17, 2019

I’m thinking your fuel supply pump would be my next move. Check the supply pressure.

alrman · Jun 17, 2019

Congratulations on your first post @ChrisB18
Could you confirm if the load on the engine is while operating any of the hydraulics or using it as a loader (driving/transmission) or both?

What type of injection pump does it have? Bosch VE (rotary) or Bosch in line ?
Have the air filters been checked/replaced? Including the inner?

thepumpguysc · Jun 17, 2019

U said the fuel pressure jumps to 30psi.?? I take it it was checked at idle.
What is it under a load when it falls off.??
I take it its an in-line pump if the fuel pressure is 30.. what does it do when its reved at no-load..

Tinkerer · Jun 17, 2019

Welcome to HEF, Chris !
Is the vent in the fuel tank filler tube cap clear ?

ChrisB18 · Jun 17, 2019

alrman said:
Congratulations on your first post @ChrisB18
Could you confirm if the load on the engine is while operating any of the hydraulics or using it as a loader (driving/transmission) or both?

What type of injection pump does it have? Bosch VE (rotary) or Bosch in line ?
Have the air filters been checked/replaced? Including the inner?

It is an inline. Engine is super slow to rev up under no load.....once at full throttle everything will work...but stalling a function...steering....or putting it in forward or reverse kills the engine down to an idle almost then it stalls

ChrisB18 · Jun 17, 2019

Tinkerer said:
Welcome to HEF, Chris !
Is the vent in the fuel tank filler tube cap clear ?

I didnt check that....I took the cap off right after stall once and didnt notice a poof....had the valve on another pump on a perkins leaking boost pressure back into fuel tank once

ChrisB18 · Jun 17, 2019

thepumpguysc said:
U said the fuel pressure jumps to 30psi.?? I take it it was checked at idle.
What is it under a load when it falls off.??
I take it its an in-line pump if the fuel pressure is 30.. what does it do when its reved at no-load..

No matter engine load it continues to jump between 8 and 30 psi

ChrisB18 · Jun 17, 2019

Vetech63 said:
I’m thinking your fuel supply pump would be my next move. Check the supply pressure.

I checked supply pressure at inlet from transfer pump on the injection pump....bounces between 8 and 30 psi no matter engine load conditions

alrman · Jun 17, 2019

There is usually an inline fuel filter between the tank & lift pump - I take it, that it is no longer there??
If not, there is a screen under the lift pump inlet fitting - is that clear?

Coy Lancaster · Jun 17, 2019

I'd check the timing on the injection pump.

ChrisB18 · Jun 17, 2019

alrman said:
There is usually an inline fuel filter between the tank & lift pump - I take it, that it is no longer there??
If not, there is a screen under the lift pump inlet fitting - is that clear?

I did not know about this screen I will definitely check it but yes the unline is there and new

ChrisB18 · Jun 17, 2019

Coy Lancaster said:
I'd check the timing on the injection pump.

Any way you or someone could send me the procedure? Also it fires almost immediately no smoke no missing

Delmer · Jun 18, 2019

The bouncing fuel pressure sounds like it's either letting too much fuel through the injection pump, or not enough volume out of the transfer pump, like the outlet valve is stuck. Maybe take the fuel line loose that's coming off the transfer pump and turn the engine by hand (or use the primer) to see if the fuel sucks back down into the line after each pump stroke. And check the volume cranking the engine.

thepumpguysc · Jun 18, 2019

The "bouncing" statement has me wondering too Delmer..
There are 2 components that control fuel pressure.. the supply/lift pump & the overflow valve on the inj. pump return circuit, screwed into the return side on the inj. pump..{banjo bolt}
U need to narrow down the inj. pump for me.. there are several diff. types that go on that engine..
An "A" pump & a "P" pump..{in-lines}
Bothe carry the overflow valve..
The supply pump "supplys fuel" & the overflow dumps it off when "X" pressure is obtained.. its supposed to HOLD 25-35psi then dump it back to the tank or inlet..
When u shut the machine off.. what happens to the pressure on the gauge.?? Drops off to 0 or holds THEN slowly drops off..
The 8 psi is bothersome too.. it shouldn't be reading 8 anywhere.. like I said.. its supposed to be atleast 25 anywhere u put the rpms..
The supply pumps where/are known to be the weak spot in the system..
There is also a higher pop off overflow valve that I used in all my pumps.. the more fuel in the fuel gallery for the plungers to use, the more it delivered to the engine.. 2 417 412 082 I think it was.. pop off pressure is set at 2.5 bar..{35psi} The 1 u have now is prob. a 1.5 bar [21psi} 2 417 413 101 the # is usually stamped on the hex part of the valve.
IF your gauge is reading 8 at low idle, I would suspect the supply pump..

ChrisB18 · Jun 18, 2019

thepumpguysc said:
The "bouncing" statement has me wondering too Delmer..
There are 2 components that control fuel pressure.. the supply/lift pump & the overflow valve on the inj. pump return circuit, screwed into the return side on the inj. pump..{banjo bolt}
U need to narrow down the inj. pump for me.. there are several diff. types that go on that engine..
An "A" pump & a "P" pump..{in-lines}
Bothe carry the overflow valve..
The supply pump "supplys fuel" & the overflow dumps it off when "X" pressure is obtained.. its supposed to HOLD 25-35psi then dump it back to the tank or inlet..
When u shut the machine off.. what happens to the pressure on the gauge.?? Drops off to 0 or holds THEN slowly drops off..
The 8 psi is bothersome too.. it shouldn't be reading 8 anywhere.. like I said.. its supposed to be atleast 25 anywhere u put the rpms..
The supply pumps where/are known to be the weak spot in the system..
There is also a higher pop off overflow valve that I used in all my pumps.. the more fuel in the fuel gallery for the plungers to use, the more it delivered to the engine.. 2 417 412 082 I think it was.. pop off pressure is set at 2.5 bar..{35psi} The 1 u have now is prob. a 1.5 bar [21psi} 2 417 413 101 the # is usually stamped on the hex part of the valve.
IF your gauge is reading 8 at low idle, I would suspect the supply pump..

It is a p pump....when i shut it off it slowly drops to zero.

thepumpguysc · Jun 18, 2019

I ALWAY upgraded the ovlo valve on the P pumps.. solved a laundry list of problems..
I cant remember if it was 182 or 183 p#.. but it was the 2.5 bar valve..
Once it was at 0.. & u started the engine, does it immediately jump to 30.?? or take a few..
U REALLY NEED TO find out what the pressure is when the power falls off..

Tinkerer · Jun 18, 2019

I think thepumpguy nailed when he said "I would suspect the supply pump".
I see in the parts book that the fuel tank has a non-vented fuel filler cap. The tank vent is on its own line to the tank. Prolly useless information in your situation tho.

GregsHD · Jun 18, 2019

FWIW that inline filter is supposed to be a coarse mesh strainer, should be 1/2" Wix 33248 or if 3/8" Wix 33270.

A generic paper pleat inline filter is not suitable and will cause grief sooner or later.

580 superl dies under load

ChrisB18

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Vetech63

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alrman

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thepumpguysc

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Tinkerer

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ChrisB18

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ChrisB18

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alrman

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Coy Lancaster

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ChrisB18

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Delmer

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thepumpguysc

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ChrisB18

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