Ingersoll-Rand SD100F Engine Issue - Under Powered

631G · Jun 14, 2019

I have an Ingersoll-Rand SD100F pad foot roller with a Cummins B3.9-C in it that has recently started having an issue where the engine becomes wildly under powered when you attempt to move the machine and becomes even worse when you attempt to run the vibrator and the travel motors together. The engine starts easily and if your parked and at high idle it runs fine. One symptom that presents itself when the engine is under load is the exhaust smoke becomes a very heavy black like its not burning all the fuel. We have replace all the filters on the machine within the last 50HRS and checked the turbo and its spinning freely from what we can see on the intake side. I think that the gate valve on the turbo may be sticking because its hard to move by hand? My mechanic also thinks that we may have a hydraulic motor going out on the drum drive possibly or a main pump dying? Any help on trouble shooting this issue would be greatly appreciated.

Machine Serial Number: 151497
Engine Serial Number: 45587012

Thanks,
631G

funwithfuel · Jun 14, 2019

Did you replace your in line fuel filter. Did you see if turbo shaft is broken. Just cuz it spins dont mean it ain't broken?

631G · Jun 14, 2019

funwithfuel said:
Did you replace your in line fuel filter. Did you see if turbo shaft is broken. Just cuz it spins dont mean it ain't broken?

I will ask our mechanic if he exchanged the inline filter. I want to say it wasn't replaced. On the turbo shaft, you have to forgive my ignorance, how do you check that?

John C. · Jun 14, 2019

Black smoke means too much fuel or not enough air. Replace air filters first after that the quickest way to check the engine output is to install a boost gauge on the intake manifold. In general it should be running seven to ten PSI under load. It could be higher. It shouldn't be any lower.

Vetech63 · Jun 14, 2019

Check your boost hoses and clamps also.

funwithfuel · Jun 14, 2019

That canister and pushrod should be very stiff. Remove the air inlet tube. Remove the exhaust elbow at the turn. Now hold the impeller and the compressor wheel and see if one turns without the other do not use a lot of force. No shaft is common to both wheels if one is broken you won't build boost.

I assumed wrongly that you would have already checked but as John C pointed out you really need to service your air filters before moving any further. Make sure somebody didn't put one in backwards in effectively choked off the air

thepumpguysc · Jun 14, 2019

I like to diagnose ANY diesel ENGINE by removing the air intake hose/pipe completely off the engine.
Just because u removed the filters, doesn't mean the hoses/pipes aren't collapsed..
An inj. pump doesn't just "overfuel" by itself.. The injectors may need servicing.??
or a turbo ??

631G · Jun 16, 2019

Thanks for the feedback thus far. We have replaced all the filters, including air, when the machine was purchased. The filters all only have around 50 hours on them. I’ll be putting this shared information in front of our mechanic tomorrow to start diving into. Hopefully we get this guy straightened out.

Thanks

631G · Jul 17, 2019

Update,

After back burnering this repair, we’ve finally pulled the turbo off and it’s all good. Nothing is broken. We have been told y another local mechanic to check a vacuum line that controls fuel output from the injector pump based on pressure being built by the turbo. Anyone familiar with this on a Cummins 4BT?

Also to confirm all filter are new, including the air filters. I had my bets pegged to the turbo being shot out as Funwithfuel had suggested.

Thanks for the input.

funwithfuel · Jul 17, 2019

Since you inspected the turbo, did we inspect the pipes from the turbo to the cooler and from the cooler to the intake manifold. You're looking for any kind of physical damage. Broken clamps, ruptured hoses etc. Closely inspect the cooler itself. Make sure nothing has rubbed a hole in it, no cracks, etc.
The line you mentioned is AFC or aneroid fuel control. This takes a boost signal from the manifold to throttle back fuel to limit overfueling. The thing is, yours is falling flat while overfueling indicating a loss of manifold pressure. If you travel against park brake, your rpm should maintain, manifold pressure should rise. Full throttle, full load, you should see at least 18-20 psi at the manifold. Please plumb in a gauge and report what you observe.
Good luck

Ben Witter · Jul 19, 2019

By that sn it should be an older ProPac unit. This should have an air to water intercooler so you should only have to worry about the turbo to cooler connector. When they looked at the turbo did they inspect the waste-gate and linkage? I have seen the waste-gate or linkage break on rare occasions.

The AFC takes its signal from the side of the intake manifold which is integral with the cylinder head. It is just a shot steel tube connecting the injection pump with the head. There is a short hose from the turbo compressor housing to the waste-gate actuator that sometimes comes off and you can loose boost there. This is a good spot to tap into and check boost pressure.

If you have excess black smoke you have too much fuel or not enough air. The only way you have too much fuel is if someone messed with the pump.

Is the machine able to move and vibrate now? Do the engine rpms drop off significantly when you load the engine? Is it just a puff of black smoke or continuously smoking?

631G · Dec 24, 2019

Ben Witter said:
By that sn it should be an older ProPac unit. This should have an air to water intercooler so you should only have to worry about the turbo to cooler connector. When they looked at the turbo did they inspect the waste-gate and linkage? I have seen the waste-gate or linkage break on rare occasions.

The AFC takes its signal from the side of the intake manifold which is integral with the cylinder head. It is just a shot steel tube connecting the injection pump with the head. There is a short hose from the turbo compressor housing to the waste-gate actuator that sometimes comes off and you can loose boost there. This is a good spot to tap into and check boost pressure.

If you have excess black smoke you have too much fuel or not enough air. The only way you have too much fuel is if someone messed with the pump.

Is the machine able to move and vibrate now? Do the engine rpms drop off significantly when you load the engine? Is it just a puff of black smoke or continuously smoking?

Update and some over due reply’s.

We got the machine back moving and the problem persisted as it had originally. Funwithfuel, we did check out the AFC and it was functioning. Ben Witter, yes waste gate and linkage was checked out and yes the motor rpms did fall off when loaded and the smoke was continuous under load. At idle the smoke is negligible.

We’ve hired a new mechanic and he’s drilled down on the issues and pinned it to the injector pump. We’ve removed it and taken to a local diesel shop for rebuild. They told me there were several plungers that were worn out. $1900 later we have a fresh pump. Will be installing next week. I’m hopeful this addresses the issue.

Will update next week after everyone’s back from Christmas vacation.

Thanks

631G · Dec 30, 2019

Well the problem persists... the mechanic is looking at the timing as we just had the injector pump rebuilt. That’s our current guess and I reiterate the guess part of that. I’m really starting to lose hope in this little Cummins.

AusDave · Dec 30, 2019

Still waiting to hear what the boost pressure is.
This should be the next check after filters and a lot cheaper than a refurbished injection pump!

Vetech63 · Dec 31, 2019

Did your injector pump use a key on the shaft? Some of them (if so) are offset. Some pumps don’t use a key even if there is a key way. It goes by engine serial number.

thepumpguysc · Dec 31, 2019

How about a pic of the engine w/ the inj. pump mounted..

thepumpguysc · Dec 31, 2019

I see it now.. its a P7100 w an updated shut off sol..
MAKE SURE the shut off lever is FULLY retracted when its running.. Personally, I would disconnect it while diagnosing..
I see theres no cover on the air filter canister.. TAKE THE FILTERS OUT while diagnosing..
The smoke looks like turbo smoke to me..?? {gray}
ALSO, if u didnt de-grease both the drive shaft AND the gear & torque the drive nut to 200 FT LBS.. the timing may have slipped.. I dont care what it says in the "book".. its a mis-print & Bosch has a SB on it..{90ft lbs}

Bluox · Jan 1, 2020

It looks and sounds like the after cooler core in the intake manifold is leaking coolant and has plugged up giving you black smoke and low power.
Bob

HATCHEQUIP · Jan 6, 2020

find out any results yet

631G · Jan 21, 2020

thepumpguysc said:
How about a pic of the engine w/ the inj. pump mounted..

Will get you a photo today. Just got back into the office from some time off.

Ingersoll-Rand SD100F Engine Issue - Under Powered

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