JDeere 310SE backhoe issue

envirees · Jun 1, 2019

I have a older Deere backhoe with about 5500 hrs. The thing has been very dependable and has never given me any issues. However, I was driving it recently and it just stopped running. It has plenty of fuel, oil on dipstick, and I checked all the fuses, relays and the parking brake switch. When you turn on the key, all the alarms go off like it's in gear or the hoe is down. Flipping the brake switch either way has no effect. The brakes are locked as I tried to tow it back to the shop but I would have to drag it which I don't want to do.
I have minimal manuals, operator, CTM104 and TM1609. My gut tells me it's an electrical issue and not fuel but I am not certain. If it was a fuel issue, I wouldn't have the stop alarms and it would have chugged to a stop rather than just dying.
Any ideas out there on what or where to look for the issue.

Thanks in advance.

Delmer · Jun 1, 2019

I'm not familiar with the alarms on a 310se, so I can't help much there.

Does it crank when you try to start it? or just the alarms and nothing from the starter motor? Anything unusual before it died? Have you checked the battery voltage? how about voltage at the battery cable at the starter when you try to crank it?

Is the TM1609 the whole service manual, or just a part of it? That's the place to start if you have it.

Billrog · Jun 1, 2019

If it turns over pull the fuel solenoid open tie it with a piece of wire and see if it starts.

mg2361 · Jun 1, 2019

Operation and Test manual is TM1608. Does it crank? Also there is a tow procedure in your operators manual that shows you how to release the park brake manually.

envirees · Jun 1, 2019

Yes the machine cranks. It just has the warning stop lights all on and buzzers ringing. I will look in the operators manual for a tow procedure.

Delmer · Jun 1, 2019

Again, there's a lot I don't know about an E, like if the alarms will turn off the fuel most importantly. And if the alarms are set by a computer or what.

On earlier models, the ignition switch grounds the dash module to turn it on, but the lights aren't on during cranking. If this has any relevance, I'd check the function of the ignition switch first. Does the "IGN" terminal stay on when it's cranking, etc?

mg2361 · Jun 2, 2019

No computers on the "E" series. All the lights should light with the bulb check position (key between on and crank). That machine should be able to start and run, even with the monitor unplugged. The monitor is just a monitoring system with no shut down capability.

envirees · Jun 4, 2019

Have an update. I checked the wire going into the high pressure injection pump and it had 12 volts so I think the solenoid is ok. I changed out the fuel filter which didn't have any crud in it. Just clean red fuel. Manually primed the pump until fuel ran out of the main inlet to the injection pump. Still no start. I topped off the hydraulic fluid which was a bit low but it had no effect.
I am really stumped on this one. Does anyone have a full wiring schematic. I am thinking there is some safety device that tripped that I unaware of. I know it beeps when you put the park brake on when in gear, also when the hoe is down and you move the hoe under power. Any more ideas??

Delmer · Jun 4, 2019

12 volts means the ignition switch is OK, and the injection pump should be working. Take that wire loose from the injection pump while "on" and you should get a spark and hear a click when you touch it back. That will indicate the solenoid isn't open/burned out. If you don't get a click and spark, but you do have 12V, then the coil is burned out.

If you do get the click and spark. Then the problem is internal, possibly bad, but try bleeding the injector lines first. Loosen the injector lines at the injector (careful to use two wrenches to not bend the injector) and crank until you get no air bubbles, then tighten and it should start. If you don't get bubbles, and/or fuel within 10 seconds of cranking, sorry... time to learn how to pull the pump.

mg2361 · Jun 5, 2019

envirees said:
I am thinking there is some safety device that tripped that I unaware of.

If there is a safety on that machine....(1) it would not have 12 V at the inj pump, (2) it would not have been from Deere, but installed by someone else. Delmer is dead on. Check for clicking of the solenoid first. Then crack the lines and crank until no bubbles from high pressure lines. Then tighten. If it still does not start the one more thing I would try is to remove the check ball from on top of the injection pump under the fuel return line and try starting it (have a pan to catch fuel). Also look for small black particles in the check valve.

envirees · Jun 5, 2019

Update:
So I turned on the key and disconnected the plug into the solenoid. It clicked when I pulled the plug so the solenoid is ok. Then I bled the filter just to make sure I had no bubbles in that. Then I disconnected the return line so I could look at the check valve. Fuel poured out of the fitting above the check valve when I took off the return line. I will dig into the check valve tomorrow as I only had a tubing wrench with me.

envirees · Jun 6, 2019

The check valve should prevent fuel from flowing back out of the pump, right? Fuel should flow from return line into the pump. So because fuel is flowing out of check valve, it is stuck or not functioning. Would that prevent engine start?

mg2361 · Jun 6, 2019

Fuel should flow out of the pump towards the fuel line. If that check valve is plugged or somehow stuck closed then case pressure builds preventing pump from working. If it did not start with the check valve out and you have good fuel to the pump then your pump may be shot. Did you crack the lines loose at the injectors to bleed out any air and to see if you have good fuel squirting from the lines?

envirees · Jun 6, 2019

The check valve seems to be ok. Fuel was flowing out of the pump through the check valve into the return line. However some of the injectors are very tight and I can't break them loose. I got one loose and then disconnected the solenoid. When cranking the engine, there were pulses of fuel, but not at very much pressure. Sort of about half an ounce per pulse. I didn't see any bubbles.

Delmer · Jun 6, 2019

LOOSEN THE INJECTOR LINES AT THE INJECTOR. If that's what you did, and you got a pulse with no air, then I can't help.

There won't be any pressure because it's not restricted by the injector, kind of like a pressure washer with no nozzle. Way less than a half ounce. If you got a half ounce, I suspect that wasn't an injector line?

envirees · Jun 6, 2019

I got one loose at the injector and it doesn't have much flow but no bubbles. I will try again with the lines at the injectors but they are very tight and even when holding the injector with a wrench and then taking another wrench to the metal line coming in, I can't move it and am afraid of bending or breaking the line into the injector.
What else could be causing it not to run. It died so suddenly that I expected to find a electrical cause.

thepumpguysc · Jun 6, 2019

U gotta take the fitting OFF the top of the pump..
I know fuel will flow from the LINE when u take IT OFF.. ur gonna hafta plug it somehow or hold your finger over it while someone else takes that fitting out.. & try to start it..
1 way is to remove the return LINE, then take the fitting off the top of the pump & screw it back onto the line.. THAT will slow it down & give u something to "plug"..
Slip a piece of hose over it & shove a bolt in the other end..
Most people freak out when they take that return line off & it starts pouring fuel.. & that's usually the end of their diagnosis..
Do u have a volt meter or test lite.?? MAKE SURE when ur turning the key to START, that its STILL got 12volts.. & not dropping off..{safety devise}

envirees · Jun 6, 2019

I will take the fitting off the pump tomorrow and crank it and see what happens. I will also try to get to some more injectors. I checked the voltage at the solenoid a few days ago. It was 12 v with key on, but dropped to 8 volts when cranking. Where is any safety device? My experience with these type of solenoids on diesels is it will have 12 volts to retract a spring, then drop to a lower voltage to hold the solenoid open. I had one on a Brazilian Ford diesel 6.6L.

mg2361 · Jun 7, 2019

envirees said:
Where is any safety device?

John Deere 310SE has no safety device. It runs 12 volts to that solenoid all the time. Voltage dropping while cranking is normal however 8 volts is pushing the lower limit of that solenoid's ability to stay engaged (correct me if I'm wrong pumpguy). May want to install a jump pack or jump from another machine to eliminate that possibility. What is your battery voltage when cranking? I don't know where in the States you are in but this time of year your cranking voltage at the battery should easily be 10-10.5 volts.

thepumpguysc · Jun 7, 2019

Good call MG.. it has to maintain a MINIMUM of 8.8v to keep the sol. energized to run.. & THATS IF it was adjusted correctly.. The new ones are even higher than THAT.. 10v..
Just run a "hot wire" right off the battery or a separate jump box to the solenoid connection, LEAVE the engine wire intact, just "add" to it..
& MAKE SURE its spinning fast enough to ignite..

JDeere 310SE backhoe issue

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