Takeuchi hydraulic fluid?

nycb · Apr 29, 2019

My machine is calling for either 10w30 or 10w40 diesel rated engine oil in the hydraulic system (older machine, calls for whatever is being used in the engine)

It currently has some type of regular old hydraulic fluid in it and seems to be working just fine.

For topping it off and changes though is it okay to use AW 68? It's available locally, a decent price, and it looks like at 100* celsius that both SAE 30 and ISO 68 have near identical flow characteristics.

Nige · Apr 29, 2019

I'd have thought AW68 a bit heavy for a hydraulic oil, except in something like a tropical climate. Personally I think AW46 would be more suitable

nycb · Apr 29, 2019

I was just going off of the conversion tables I could find.

AW46 is supposed to be similar to SAE 20 in viscosity, so is AW68, but close to SAE 30.

Considering they called for either 30 or 40 in the manual it seemed like the thicker oil would be the correct choice.

Any reason why AW46 would be preferred?

heymccall · Apr 29, 2019

My entire fleet, including my Takeuchis, run on TO-4 spec 10W. I've got Takeuchis with nearly 10k hours, and the only failure even remotely related to the hydraulic oil has been the load check valve on the arm circuit of my 8k hr TB53FR, and, even that can't be blamed on the oil. Damned plunger turned sideways in the bore, requiring replacement of that valve section.

nycb · Apr 29, 2019

heymccall said:
My entire fleet, including my Takeuchis, run on TO-4 spec 10W. I've got Takeuchis with nearly 10k hours, and the only failure even remotely related to the hydraulic oil has been the load check valve on the arm circuit of my 8k hr TB53FR, and, even that can't be blamed on the oil. Damned plunger turned sideways in the bore, requiring replacement of that valve section.

I'm getting the impression by reading around online, that most machines will do fine on a wide range of oil provided it is serviced and changed regularly.

Sort of like how most tractors can run UDT or an equivalent universal oil that isn't factory spec and be happy as a clam.

tool_king · Apr 29, 2019

nycb said:
My machine is calling for either 10w30 or 10w40 diesel rated engine oil in the hydraulic system (older machine, calls for whatever is being used in the engine)

It currently has some type of regular old hydraulic fluid in it and seems to be working just fine.

For topping it off and changes though is it okay to use AW 68? It's available locally, a decent price, and it looks like at 100* celsius that both SAE 30 and ISO 68 have near identical flow characteristics.

What model is your Takeuchi?

heymccall · Apr 29, 2019

His other post says TL26-2.

Nige · Apr 30, 2019

nycb said:
I was just going off of the conversion tables I could find.

AW46 is supposed to be similar to SAE 20 in viscosity, so is AW68, but close to SAE 30.

Considering they called for either 30 or 40 in the manual it seemed like the thicker oil would be the correct choice.

Any reason why AW46 would be preferred?

I think a lot of the "engine oil in hydraulic systems" has its roots way back in the mists of time when machines were simpler and manufacturers were trying to make a "one size fits all" as regards lubricants. They all did it to a greater or lesser extent and your manual appears to be a throwback to those days. Engine oil is not really the correct oil for a modern hydraulic system is what I was really trying to say.
I have no idea why I wrote AW46, must have been confusing it with Hitachi. I should have said AW32.

Hydraulic systems generally work better on a purpose-designed hydraulic oil. With the experience posted above I'd take HMC's advice if I were you and put 10W TO-4 in it. TO-4 is a slightly higher spec than straight 10W hydraulic, we use it in all our Cat hydraulic systems (but only because we have some systems that call for TO-4 and others that call for straight 10W hydraulic. So that there is no chance of getting the wrong oil in a system we only stock TO-4 and put that in everything that calls for 10W)

nycb · Apr 30, 2019

Nige said:
I think a lot of the "engine oil in hydraulic systems" has its roots way back in the mists of time when machines were simpler and manufacturers were trying to make a "one size fits all" as regards lubricants. They all did it to a greater or lesser extent and your manual appears to be a throwback to those days. Engine oil is not really the correct oil for a modern hydraulic system is what I was really trying to say.
I have no idea why I wrote AW46, must have been confusing it with Hitachi. I should have said AW32.

Hydraulic systems generally work better on a purpose-designed hydraulic oil. With the experience posted above I'd take HMC's advice if I were you and put 10W TO-4 in it. TO-4 is a slightly higher spec than straight 10W hydraulic, we use it in all our Cat hydraulic systems (but only because we have some systems that call for TO-4 and others that call for straight 10W hydraulic. So that there is no chance of getting the wrong oil in a system we only stock TO-4 and put that in everything that calls for 10W)

I did some looking yesterday at the local place were I get fluids, tires, etc.

They stock all three of AW 32, 46, and 68.

They had pallets of 46 though, I'm going to assume it's the most used in this area, or else they wouldn't keep so much on hand.

Mobiltech · Apr 30, 2019

I’d be most concerned with going too heavy for cold startup and pump starving for oil and slow functions. We use a 10 hyd oil here in almost everything except skid steers. In those we use 0w20 synthetic.
I wouldn’t use anything heavier than 10 or aw32.

nycb · Apr 30, 2019

What about a multiviscosity fluid like hyguard?

I'm just worried about going to light with it and causing more wear than I really need to, especially when the manual calls for either 30 or 40

Mobiltech · Apr 30, 2019

10w30 is what it’s calling for not 30.
Straight 30 oil is very thick when cold. 10 w30 is a multi viscosity which has the flow rate of a 10 when cold and 30 when hot.

Nige · Apr 30, 2019

nycb said:
What about a multiviscosity fluid like hyguard?

I'm just worried about going to light with it and causing more wear than I really need to, especially when the manual calls for either 30 or 40

Nope, your manual calls for an multigrade engine oil, not a "30 or 40". As discussed previously this is a throwback to the "one size fits all" oils of yesteryear. The world has moved on since then.

A multiviscosity fluid you'd be wasting your money IMHO.

TBH if it was a Cat skidsteer the recommended oil would be a 10W hydraulic (or 10W TO-4).

I suggest you take the advice of someone who runs multiple machines of this brand (see post #4 above) and go with what he recommends.

nycb · Apr 30, 2019

Mobiltech said:
10w30 is what it’s calling for not 30.
Straight 30 oil is very thick when cold. 10 w30 is a multi viscosity which has the flow rate of a 10 when cold and 30 when hot.

Right.

Looking at some charts this is what I'm finding.

At 0* Celsius the Kinematic Viscosity for 10w30, 10w40, AW 46, and AW 68 is (about) 750, 730, 700, 1100 respectively.

69, 94, 46, 68 at 40* Celsius

11, 14, 7, 9 at 100* Celsius

So AW 46 is by far the most similar on a cold start, but once up to operating temperature AW 68 is much closer (but still not identical) to 10w30.

So I guess there are two questions, what is the operating temperature of the hydraulics on any given day (I don't think they get as hot as the engine oil, which is over 200* F often)

And is it more important to have the protection of a thinner oil on start up, or a thicker oil at operating temperature if you have to choose between the two?

nycb · Apr 30, 2019

Nige said:
Nope, your manual calls for an multigrade engine oil, not a "30 or 40". As discussed previously this is a throwback to the "one size fits all" oils of yesteryear. The world has moved on since then.

A multiviscosity fluid you'd be wasting your money IMHO.

TBH if it was a Cat skidsteer the recommended oil would be a 10W hydraulic (or 10W TO-4).

I suggest you take the advice of someone who runs multiple machines of this brand (see post #4 above) and go with what he recommends.

I likely will. I'm just trying to wrap my head around why it would spec one type of oil (convenience at the time would by my guess, but I'm sure the engineers thought it would still offer the protection required) and then be fine on something totally different.

Sort of like how my older trucks preferred thicker oil in both the engine and the drivetrain, perhaps tolerances were more loose and required it. I certainly wouldn't run 15w40 in my new diesel when it calls for 10w30, but it was the correct oil for the time the truck was made and how it was made to operate.

Nige · Apr 30, 2019

You hit the nail right on the head about the reason for speccing an engine oil in the hydraulic system - convenience.
In digging into the viscosity specs all you are doing is confusing yourself IMHO. It's not even certain that engine oil is/was the correct oil for the job anyway, so why compare other oils to it..?
Throw either 10W hydraulic/10W TO-4/AW32 in it and move on.

tool_king · Apr 30, 2019

Nige said:
Nope, your manual calls for an multigrade engine oil, not a "30 or 40". As discussed previously this is a throwback to the "one size fits all" oils of yesteryear. The world has moved on since then.

A multiviscosity fluid you'd be wasting your money IMHO.

TBH if it was a Cat skidsteer the recommended oil would be a 10W hydraulic (or 10W TO-4).

I suggest you take the advice of someone who runs multiple machines of this brand (see post #4 above) and go with what he recommends.

He is running Takeuchi TB145 .I email him the manuals this morning .

nycb · Apr 30, 2019

tool_king said:
He is running Takeuchi TB145 .I email him the manuals this morning .

It's a TL26 skidsteer.

nycb · Apr 30, 2019

Nige said:
You hit the nail right on the head about the reason for speccing an engine oil in the hydraulic system - convenience.
In digging into the viscosity specs all you are doing is confusing yourself IMHO. It's not even certain that engine oil is/was the correct oil for the job anyway, so why compare other oils to it..?
Throw either 10W hydraulic/10W TO-4/AW32 in it and move on.

Probably the best choice, it's cold here more than it's warm, and getting 13 gallons of oil up to temperature takes some time. When it was cold out (who am I kidding, it's still cold out) I was giving it at least 10 minutes of idle time after start up.

I could always go thicker if I lose power at operating temperature.

Nige · Apr 30, 2019

Change to 10W and I think you will notice an immediate dfference in hydraulic system response when the machine is cold, and probably no difference at all when it's warm.

Takeuchi hydraulic fluid?

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