Kxnate
Well-Known Member
What, you dont like the taste of 80-90???
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Questioning used purchase
- Thread starter Sdriv1731
- Start date
What, you dont like the taste of 80-90???
Silveroddo
Senior Member
***This is going to come from a place of conjecture and is not to be confused with an expert opinion***
I'm guessing most failures occur on the gear side as that would be the side that's more susceptible to a lack of maintenance and contamination. That being said if you were running oil samples on that drive motor the fluid would be coming from the gear side, not the hydraulic. If it were me and I were concerned I'd be keeping a close eye on the fluid levels and after I put some hours on it I'd get it sampled. You can get the kits from cat and they're cheap. Also this might sound a little hokey but if you can't see a leak, sometimes the first symptom is a slight oil smell around the drive motor after the machines been worked awhile, I've seen a machine do that for quite awhile before it got bad enough that you started to see dampness.
The unfortunate thing is once you become aware of this fatal flaw in these machines its like dealing with a cheating girlfriend, your not going to fully trust that machine ever again, and you'll spend your time waiting for things to grenade.
I'm no longer involved in a day to day full time excavating business but in the early 2000's when these things came out we went through what your going through on a machine we rented and looked at purchasing, we opted to not purchase and stayed away from owning a CTL by keeping a wheeled machine and tracks and renting a CTL as needed. 20 years later my brother just bought a Cat CTL with 1000 hours and is keeping his tire machine with the intention of only using the Cat as needed.
rondig
Senior Member
I would never go back to a wheel machine for dirt work...ctl do 4 times more work then wheel and only cost 2 times more in the end....the extra performance and 2 weeks sooner in the field is well worth it..short season up here makes perfect sense to have ctl
Kxnate
Well-Known Member
So a question to all this, if it is the gear side that grenades, how does it end up contaminating the entire hydraulic system of the machine wit metal as I have read about? The gear side of the unit is separated from the hydraulic power side correct? Is there a seal separating the 2 sides of the unit that the metal from when a unit grenades just passes through and ends up in the hydraulic system?? Just trying to educate myself as I am not super familiar with these drives other than pulling the gear covers out for inspection and oil change on mine after I got it.
Kxnate
Well-Known Member
They do move a lot of terra firma in a hurry!!
rondig
Senior Member
The only drive i had fail....was on the hydraulic side....but i have seen many excavators fail on the gear side
Kxnate
Well-Known Member
That would make more sense to me on how the whole hydraulic system would get contaminated with metal if the hydraulic motor itself grenades. There's really not any preventive maintenance you can do for that outside of changing hydraulic filter and keeping the reservoir full correct?
Silveroddo
Senior Member
I don't think anyone will argue which will do more work, I think the main question is which 2500 hours you want to own one, the 1st 2500, or the last 2500.
Silveroddo
Senior Member
If that's whats happening then that makes sense, the specific machine we were using was a bobcat and both finals failed after 1000 hours on the planetary side, ended up replacing the front idlers and a few rollers around the same time, Never had to mess with the hydraulic system. That was one of the 1st ctl's and not to be confused with the current stuff.
Aside from the filter and level you could sample the fluid and if there's any contamination or if its degraded it should show up and let you know if you need to service the fluid itself.
rondig
Senior Member
There is no question....i dont own them that long....we take a huge hit on trade in...which should cover the parts that need to be changed...unfortunately people buy a 20 k machine and want it to work like a 60 k machine....they need to put atleast 10 k into it to make it.most likely good for another 1000-1500 hrs...that is a lot less cost per hour than our new machines...but we cant afford the down time...so we pay....and get paid to do so....i buy a new truck every 2 years...no hassles...my kid buys a 10 year old truck...has the time to fix....and can borrow mine when it breaks down ...so he saves a lot of money....same thing with ctls...you gotta pay to play.
rondig
Senior Member
Heat kills the hydraulics...running hot kills them the most...when you run a mulcher, mower, and cooler slightly plugs or very hot outside....have to be careful...also mech told me running tracks to tight causes heating and bearing issues
I for sure want to be the first 2500. The other factor is if your a homeowner or contractor. Repairing a CTL that does go down out of pocket would suck and you would have to be pretty flush to be ok with spending that kind of money on a toy for around the yard. No question a CTL moves more dirt, but if your not getting paid for it, does it really matter if takes longer to grade your own North 40? If your a contractor buying a well used CTL may make sense, at least it is making you money. If your a GC and you need something on a jobsite to handle backfill, grading and concrete prep, I can see where the older, higher houred CTL can work. If your an excavation contractor and use a CTL as crucial part of your business, new or lower houred machine makes more sense at least to me.
Kxnate
Well-Known Member
So what temp range on the hydraulic fluid would be nearing the danger zone?
I had the hard decision between wheeled and CTL last year, went with CTL and so happy I did. It's not even close how much faster it moves dirt, and how many jobs I wouldn't be able to do with a wheeled machine. I got a 13 Deere 319 and other then a recent issue with aux hydraulics it's been perfect for the 200 hours i've put on it, at 2200 now. I did consider jumping from $30k to $40k but it was just too much money for how much I use it. It might see 400-500 hours a year so I could never justify new, but at the same time wanted someone that wasn't worn out. I changed out every single fluid when I got it, and changing the oil in the drives every 200 hours, very cheap insurance. The drives are pricey and it would suck to need one or worse yet two in a short time but at least the bright side is that is the biggest undercarriage expense and you'd be set for a long time after. Renting is a pain. If you only need a CTL for a very small portion and wheels would suffice it may be a decent idea. But for virtually everything I do tracks are superior even when it's dry they just push dirt so much faster, more stable for piles, etc.
The only thing I regret is buying a Deere for the controls, they are not good. Every time I jump back in a Case I realize just how bad they are. If i'm running it a lot I get use to it, but I still don't like them.
The only thing I regret is buying a Deere for the controls, they are not good. Every time I jump back in a Case I realize just how bad they are. If i'm running it a lot I get use to it, but I still don't like them.
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ianjoub
Senior Member
Y'all make me worry. I bought my MTL with high hours, run a mulcher, I am in the FL heat... I guess my saving grace will be I will only put 150-200 hrs per year on it.
Mobiltech
Senior Member
They’re not all bad. I bought a well used 287 cat 7 years ago with 2650 hrs on it for $18500. I have done a lot of dirt work and snow removal around my yard with it and can’t imagine what I’d do without it. I have replaced a few hoses and track rollers in the 1500 hours I’ve put on it. It will push and carry dirt or snow in places nothing else will. I like it so much I have tried to find another one the same but now they are going for $25000 in auctions. I think that’s because they have very little electronics and don’t use planetary drives.
What is your budget and time frame? I looked for a year and ended up finding a single owner machine with under 2000 hours for around 15k.
Auction machines over 2000 hours were getting bid up to 20 grand more, and they scare the hell out of me, no idea what the history of the machine is.
Auction machines over 2000 hours were getting bid up to 20 grand more, and they scare the hell out of me, no idea what the history of the machine is.
I would imagine the gear side would last longer than the drive side in most cases provided it has oil in it the whole time.
Look at the rear ends in a lot of trucks on the road, people never check or change that oil and it's a rare failure point before something else in the drivetrain usually.