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Rust removal for parts restoration

workshoprat92

workshoprat92

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Dec 15, 2014
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817
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Bois D Arc Missouri
Ok so I bought myself another epic project. As you can see in the pic the previous owner let everything set out in the weather. I dont know why guys do that when open top sealed barrels are easy to find real cheap. If ya have to let it set outside put everything in a sealed barrel!!!! It sure beats letting all your precious parts go to crap and then spend hours of restoration.

So now that my rant is over lol I like to ask what everyone else uses for rust removal. I have seen everything from blasting to chemicals and chemical baths, electrolysis and even coke a cola bath.

I think id like to try the electrolysis method and shouldnt be to hard to set up with a plastic barrel. Plus no chemicals and is supposedly enviro friendly. Other than the cost of energy it sbould be somewhat cheaper than chemicals i think? Has any of you tried this method.

Any thoughts?

Screenshot_20190418-202044.jpg
 
J

Jonas302

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Jan 4, 2015
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mn
I'm not even sure where the ripper tooth goes in that engine(; It will be interesting to see your results I know muratic acid will remove rust pretty well but electrolysis sounds safer
 
D

Delmer

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Jan 3, 2013
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WI
electrolysis is the only method I'd try with engine parts like that. I have a barrel of sour corn that works surprisingly well, but I wouldn't put engine parts in it, not if I wanted the engine to run for me. The barrel works great for rims that have had calcium chloride, old pitch forks, low tech stuff like that.

edit: I'm not sure if DIYDAVE meant your box of potatoes, or actually using potato peels. Potato peels would ferment and acidify just like my rotten corn, and eat down to bare metal.
 
workshoprat92

workshoprat92

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Joined
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Messages
817
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Bois D Arc Missouri
Jonas302 said:
I'm not even sure where the ripper tooth goes in that engine(; It will be interesting to see your results I know muratic acid will remove rust pretty well but electrolysis sounds safer
Click to expand...
Lol yea its just in the pile and not sure why they found the need to take it off the machine?
I know muratic acid will work but wont it just rust again even worse within a few days? At least thats been my experience with muratic.
 
workshoprat92

workshoprat92

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Joined
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Messages
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Bois D Arc Missouri
Delmer said:
electrolysis is the only method I'd try with engine parts like that. I have a barrel of sour corn that works surprisingly well, but I wouldn't put engine parts in it, not if I wanted the engine to run for me. The barrel works great for rims that have had calcium chloride, old pitch forks, low tech stuff like that.
Click to expand...
I think it would be wise to perfect the method with some sacrificial parts first! Isnt a using a barrel of sour corn a waste of good whiskey makings?
 
D

Delmer

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Yep, starch makes acid, acid eats the rust. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has seen the bottom of a gravity box that got wet corn in it and had to rinse the slime out to find perfectly clean metal.

That's why you want to use electrolysis, the safest for the existing metal (unless you reverse the leads!). Do a trial first to make sure you get the polarity right, and figure out how you're going to keep it from flash rusting while it dries, the electrolysis bath is alkaline which helps, but whatever I take out (electrolysis or acid) gets pressure washed and rusts again before it's dry. Maybe pressure wash the chunks off, put it right back in while still wet, then pull it out and dry quickly with the baking soda, or dip in something else to prevent the rust, then dry. That part I haven't figured out...
 
kshansen

kshansen

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Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
Jonas302 said:
I'm not even sure where the ripper tooth goes in that engine
Click to expand...
I thought that that was the timing mark pointer!

As for cleaning the rust I might try using a scraper like for gaskets to take off anything heavy then carefully use a fine Scotch brite pad on a four inch grinder to buff off the rest. Just have to be careful to not round over edges.

Another idea might be to use a nice fine large flat file with some fuel oil for a lubricant and work the larger flat areas like you were using a wood working plane.

Any bores like oil galleys I would scrub out with something like a gun cleaning wire brush and take out all plugs.

We went through something like this on a small, I believe 6 cylinder, twin over head cam Cat engine one time. It was a gen set engine, about the size of a 3306, when we tore it down were told not worth rebuilding as we had no use for it at that time. Parts stacked on pallets and put outside. Then several moths latter someone decided they needed that genset! Lots of cleaning and polishing of parts and running taps through each and every hole. It actually did run again!
 
Last edited:
workshoprat92

workshoprat92

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
817
Location
Bois D Arc Missouri
Delmer said:
Yep, starch makes acid, acid eats the rust. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has seen the bottom of a gravity box that got wet corn in it and had to rinse the slime out to find perfectly clean metal.

That's why you want to use electrolysis, the safest for the existing metal (unless you reverse the leads!). Do a trial first to make sure you get the polarity right, and figure out how you're going to keep it from flash rusting while it dries, the electrolysis bath is alkaline which helps, but whatever I take out (electrolysis or acid) gets pressure washed and rusts again before it's dry. Maybe pressure wash the chunks off, put it right back in while still wet, then pull it out and dry quickly with the baking soda, or dip in something else to prevent the rust, then dry. That part I haven't figured out...
Click to expand...
Yea i see on the YouTube videos electrolysis leaves a layer of black scum. I have one of those spray wash cabinets and figured it would go in that afterwards. Nice thing about that is it is hot water and heats the part. If you remove the part and then blow dry with compressed air it instantly dries and does not flash rust instant. That gives you a chance to paint or coat with a corrosion inhibitor before it rusts again. For long term storage I really like the sealed barrels with removable lids.
 
workshoprat92

workshoprat92

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Bois D Arc Missouri
I notice in the videos guys are using trickle chargers. Most of the time they add in a battery. Not sure if that ups the amperage or what. Really am wondering what is a good power source to use for this. Is a trickle charger enough or would a larger boost charger be better. And if your going bigger scale what about a small welder? Will more amperage clean better or worse? To much will it erode the part? Need to find some info on whats the best balance in a setup. I have some pretty big parts to do so I am thinking of maybee usi g one of them plastic totes that can be bought cheap for a dip tank. Nice thing is they are forkliftable a d have a drain spout. Its something that can be stored outside when not in use without harm to it so it does not clog up shop space. So much to consider lol!
 
funwithfuel

funwithfuel

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Have you looked into evaporust? Its supposed to be enviro-friendly, safe to work with and reusable. Available at most "parts stores"
Maybe worth a peek
 
C

Ct Farmer

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Dec 8, 2016
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Connecticut
I've done a lot of electrolysis rust removal on many different things. It works well but there are things to be aware of. It is slow. As in days. Make sure you get the polarity correct. It is best to use a constant current power supply compared to a battery charger.

You must do this outside due to the production of an explosive off gassing. It will flash off if confined.

The soda ash required is cheap and electricity use is not big deal.

Do not use anything stainless steel for tank or anode. The process will create hexavalent chromium. Very nasy stuff. I use large graphite slabs for anodes but any scrap steel will work. Make sure the square inches of anode at least equals the area of the part to be cleaned. More is good. Do not put your hands in the tank when running. Keep the part submerged until ready to clean and dry. I wash in soapy water, rinse hot, dry and then wd-40 to drive off moisture.

You can also blast many of those parts with a soft media like walnut shell or corn cob. Both work fine.
 
workshoprat92

workshoprat92

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Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
817
Location
Bois D Arc Missouri
funwithfuel said:
Have you looked into evaporust? Its supposed to be enviro-friendly, safe to work with and reusable. Available at most "parts stores"
Maybe worth a peek
Click to expand...
Yes i have looked at it. There are many products on the market that im sure would work quite well. In the end I think the cost to buy enough to submerge an entire caterpillar engine block would make it cost prohibitive. Thats the apeal behind the idea of electrolysis. Its just dirt cheap.
 
workshoprat92

workshoprat92

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
817
Location
Bois D Arc Missouri
Ct Farmer said:
I've done a lot of electrolysis rust removal on many different things. It works well but there are things to be aware of. It is slow. As in days. Make sure you get the polarity correct. It is best to use a constant current power supply compared to a battery charger.

You must do this outside due to the production of an explosive off gassing. It will flash off if confined.

The soda ash required is cheap and electricity use is not big deal.

Do not use anything stainless steel for tank or anode. The process will create hexavalent chromium. Very nasy stuff. I use large graphite slabs for anodes but any scrap steel will work. Make sure the square inches of anode at least equals the area of the part to be cleaned. More is good. Do not put your hands in the tank when running. Keep the part submerged until ready to clean and dry. I wash in soapy water, rinse hot, dry and then wd-40 to drive off moisture.

You can also blast many of those parts with a soft media like walnut shell or corn cob. Both work fine.
Click to expand...
Thats all great info. Makes sense on the constant voltage. I think thats why you see guys add a battery into the circuit. It puts a load on the charger to stabilize the current as most of those chargers are variable current. It sounds like a constant current dc welder might work best!
 
C

Ct Farmer

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Messages
322
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Connecticut
Be careful of using too much current. You will end up blasting the rust right off and that will leave pits. You should just see a slow, slight stream of gas bubbles coming off the part. You may need to get creative with anode shape and placement to get all areas. Some of those big rustier things may take days.

Looks like it is a 3304 and they pulled at least one liner? If the ledges in the block are eroded this may get expensive fast or be a non-project.
 
workshoprat92

workshoprat92

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
817
Location
Bois D Arc Missouri
Ct Farmer said:
Be careful of using too much current. You will end up blasting the rust right off and that will leave pits. You should just see a slow, slight stream of gas bubbles coming off the part. You may need to get creative with anode shape and placement to get all areas. Some of those big rustier things may take days.

Looks like it is a 3304 and they pulled at least one liner? If the ledges in the block are eroded this may get expensive fast or be a non-project.
Click to expand...
Its a D330c engine which basically is the 3304 block and head. I have a running 3304 i was gona use for this machine but may need to strip it down to the long block and go back up with the d330c parts from there. If i can salvage the block and head and build another long block its just a bonus but the potential that its junk was already factored in lol!
 
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