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Deere 455G Fuel Supply Problem

J

jwalk2c

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
55
Location
Claremont NC
I also posted this at John Deere Forum so forgive me for double post.
I have a 1997 455G with 1100 hours, that has always cranked easily.

This week it cranked up and ran for a minute then suddenly the engine died.

I began trouble shooting and the first think I noticed that when I removed the fuel cap the tank was pressurized.

I then checked for fuel going into pump, “check”, and I tried to pump the lever on fuel pump but I was not getting any resistance.

I loosened bleed screw on fuel filter and was able to see some slight pressure bubbles though not many.

Next I check for fuel going into pump, “check”. Fuel going out of one of the pump injector lines “no”

Ignition on hear the click sound of solenoid.

I kept fiddling with losing lines where I had fuel and turning engine briefly and finally with fuel lever at full throttle it cranked. But for a minute it ran rough and did not respond to throttle control as it should.

Now it is running fine.

My question is:

1. In my service manual TM1404 “If there is a hiss when you remove fuel cap (replace fuel cap)

2. My fuel transfer pump has a slow drip, and the hand pump lever I mentioned I could not feel resistance when I moved back and forth, I realized if I pull it towards me fairly hard all of the sudden it budged and I felt the pressure, but a small amount of fuel squirts out of fuel pump housing with each stoke. So I think I need to change the fuel pump which new is about $90.

I was lucky this time that it did not start when it was in work area. In fact I have had this loader 2 years and have not got to use it yet. I have been trying to do the 1000 hour service before I put it to work. I enjoy working on it as a hobby.

It came from a state park and I have no record of what’s been done to it. So far I have flushed the cooling system, and am changing the engine oil, but I have a long way to go. All the fluids have to be changed at 1000 hours. And I am fixing every little thing that I can find.

If anyone can advise if I should change fuel cap just because of fuel pressure build up in tank I would appreciate it. The Service Manual does say so.

And since the fuel transfer pump is leaking should I go ahead and change it? I am not familiar with how the primer lever should function, so I cannot tell if mine is working correctly of not. I did try it at different engine cam positions though that did not have any effect.

Thank you

Johnny Walker
 
DMiller

DMiller

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
16,582
Location
Hermann, Missouri
Occupation
Cheap "old" Geezer
The seepage leaks are likely associated to the fuel system pressurizing. Has this engine had any nozzle work recently? Replace the cap first or make the attempt to clean and clear the relief/vacuum check system in it then recheck your leakers.
May want to consider having nozzles tested(will require removing) to see if may have a back leaker.
 
D

Delmer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,891
Location
WI
Yes, the cap shouldn't hold or build up pressure, clean or replace, or leave it loose until you figure this out.

That's very low hours and you state you haven't got to use it much, your fuel is old and gummed up. You need to do something about that long term. If you have a metal tank, then I'd use a plastic boat tank that you take off the machine to keep the fuel fresh instead. You can keep the fuel fresh, it just means you have to use up most of the fuel once in a while.

There may be a strainer/screen in the tank, check your fuel inlet at the tank, or jdparts.com to see what you have in the tank. May need to drain the tank and clean it while you're at it.

Where is the fuel pump leaking? That could be your issue, but you have a lot of possibilities going on at once. I'd try tightening it slightly if that's an option. You may get the pump cheaper, it wasn't made in a JD factory...

The correct operation of a lever operated diaphragm priming pump is what yours is doing. You can test by taking the outlet off of the pump and priming it, with no pressure on the outlet, it should pump with medium resistance most of the stroke. If you hold your finger over the outlet, then the pressure builds on the first stroke, the diaphragm is held back by the fuel pressure and the lever moves freely with very light resistance. Now take the suction hose off and try to pump it with the suction full of fuel and blocked, how's it feel now? Then you can tell what the pressure is in the system without a gauge, nice right?

Also, you will only have fuel out of the injection lines when the engine is cranking with the key on. You may have to loosen one or two lines at the injector (carefully holding the injector side with another wrench) to bleed the pump and lines once you are sure you have fuel in the pump. Tighten the lines once the fuel doesn't have bubbles anymore and it should start.
 
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T

thepumpguysc

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
7,539
Location
Sunny South Carolina
Occupation
Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
All good advice.. replace cap or repair or leave loose.
Replace supply pump.. you KNOW it leaks.. & just because its "not leaking anymore" doesn't mean its not sucking air.. you KNOW it leaks.. good luck & have fun w/ your new toy..
 
J

jwalk2c

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
55
Location
Claremont NC
Thank you to all.

I am glad to hear quote "you will only have fuel out of the injection lines when the engine is cranking with the key on." That explains that piece of the trouble shooting I did not comprehend.

I am picking up a new fuel transfer pump Saturday from James River at my local John Deere dealer in Statesville.

I have drained the fuel every few months at the bottom of tank and I do get about 1/4 cup of rusty fuel, but then it starts to run drain clear.

My next step is to remove strainer at fuel inlet under cap, drain the fuel and shine a light down in tank to see what shape the tank is in. I have used a biocide in this fuel, even though I was not sure if it was needed, and I have kept the fuel treated the past 2 years with Power Service in Winter and in Summer the Summer formula, however I am switching to John Deere Summer Fuel Treatment when I add new fuel.

I do not know if any nozzle work was done to this machine.

It was owned by Manassas National Battlefield Pkwy in VA, and used to maintain the park trails and such.

I was able to speak to the director of Maintenance prior to purchasing it, but he could not provide me any records of work performed.

Thank you everyone,

Johnny Walker
 
J

jwalk2c

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
55
Location
Claremont NC
Sorry double post, can't figure out how to delete. Please see my post below for outcome of fuel transfer pump
 
Last edited:
J

jwalk2c

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
55
Location
Claremont NC
Thanks to everyone’s help I was able to install new transfer pump, cleaned out all the gummed up fuel cutoff valve, all fittings, vents, drains etc. that were also gummed up. Cleaned out the line from tank to pump, drained the tank of old diesel.

I learned you have to position cam at just the right rotation in order for fuel pump primer to actually pump fuel,

I cleaned out both fuel cap vent and pressure relief valves. Mine must be a slight older style with the wire mesh and valves. And small ball bearings that you can drill out and replace. I am not sure why you would need to do this, but I bought them anyway. I noticed a picture of replacement cap and it only has brass mesh for vent. I also decided to change out the fuel cap vent and pressure relief valve since they are still available. I replaced the cap sealing gasket as well. Also cleaned the tank inlet strainer.

My fuel tank does not have the strainer at the tank outlet, and according to the parts catalog this is correct. So all I had to do there was take the cutoff valve apart and clean out the old gummed diesel.

At the glass fuel filter (in truck parts we called them Stanadyne) the drain fitting and bleed fitting were both completely compacted and blocked with built up dirt and fuel. And the rubber seals were in bad shape. I was able to clean those aluminum drain fittings, but replaced with new anyway, and of course the rubber seals.

The short fuel line from pump to filter base needed the fitting ferrules cleaned and a wire brush took care of that. Now they rotate freely and make a good seal.

I noticed the fitting coming out of the back of old fuel transfer pump was bent as you may be able to tell in the picture. . It is a bear to get that fuel line to line up and connect as you have to angle the fitting on the pump just right... I had the pump of several times before I could connect without forcing line.

I am trying to go over this loader with a fine tooth comb. I removed all the sheet metal and have cleaned out the dirt on transverse case, and emptied the dirt from the belly pans. I like the way the belly pans bolt up on the Deere compared to Cat, but you have to reach up in with you had to scoop out all the dirt. The pans are smaller is the reason.

Compared to a Caterpillar 935 that I owned so far everything I have worked on the Deere is a much better design. But that has been minor stuff, I can’t comment on the major stuff. I sold Cat engine parts for 35 years so I know Cat is well made.
 

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jwalk2c

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Claremont NC
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jwalk2c

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Claremont NC
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J

Jd310a@maine

New Member
Joined
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Location
Maine
jwalk2c said:
Thanks to everyone’s help I was able to install new transfer pump, cleaned out all the gummed up fuel cutoff valve, all fittings, vents, drains etc. that were also gummed up. Cleaned out the line from tank to pump, drained the tank of old diesel.

I learned you have to position cam at just the right rotation in order for fuel pump primer to actually pump fuel,

I cleaned out both fuel cap vent and pressure relief valves. Mine must be a slight older style with the wire mesh and valves. And small ball bearings that you can drill out and replace. I am not sure why you would need to do this, but I bought them anyway. I noticed a picture of replacement cap and it only has brass mesh for vent. I also decided to change out the fuel cap vent and pressure relief valve since they are still available. I replaced the cap sealing gasket as well. Also cleaned the tank inlet strainer.

My fuel tank does not have the strainer at the tank outlet, and according to the parts catalog this is correct. So all I had to do there was take the cutoff valve apart and clean out the old gummed diesel.

At the glass fuel filter (in truck parts we called them Stanadyne) the drain fitting and bleed fitting were both completely compacted and blocked with built up dirt and fuel. And the rubber seals were in bad shape. I was able to clean those aluminum drain fittings, but replaced with new anyway, and of course the rubber seals.

The short fuel line from pump to filter base needed the fitting ferrules cleaned and a wire brush took care of that. Now they rotate freely and make a good seal.

I noticed the fitting coming out of the back of old fuel transfer pump was bent as you may be able to tell in the picture. . It is a bear to get that fuel line to line up and connect as you have to angle the fitting on the pump just right... I had the pump of several times before I could connect without forcing line.

I am trying to go over this loader with a fine tooth comb. I removed all the sheet metal and have cleaned out the dirt on transverse case, and emptied the dirt from the belly pans. I like the way the belly pans bolt up on the Deere compared to Cat, but you have to reach up in with you had to scoop out all the dirt. The pans are smaller is the reason.

Compared to a Caterpillar 935 that I owned so far everything I have worked on the Deere is a much better design. But that has been minor stuff, I can’t comment on the major stuff. I sold Cat engine parts for 35 years so I know Cat is well made.
Click to expand...
Hello. I'm trying right now to install a new transfer pump on a john deere 310a backhoe. The concern I am hoping you might know something about is when the transfer pump is attached to the engine block the lever no longer has resistance and feels " loose". So im wondering if I've lined it up with the cam correctly? Before I tighten the bolts to the pump the lever has resistance. But when its tightened on no more resistance. I read that maybe that just means " cam on" and I need to crank the engine to line it up. Hoping you may be able to help me. Thanks.
 
D

Delmer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,891
Location
WI
yes, crank the engine and see if it has resistance. Also, be aware the you're feeling the resistance of pulling the diaphragm back, hence no resistance as the cam has already pulled it back. You will also have no resistance once the fuel has been pumped up to pressure, the fuel will hold the diaphragm back.
 
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