Hein Werner C12 HD Excavator

Sure wish you were closer, that thing looks nice and straight.

OHH WOW!! thanks for the pics and diagrams!!! Sorry been a we bit busy. I finally looked at the handle and realized that there is a cable with no handle below the one I am pulling to shut down the engine. So my guess is that the one with no handle on it is the emergency shut down and the one above is shut off... Neither one are labeled. The person I bought this from told me it uses 10w40 hydraulic fluid. Ok so is this just 10w40 oil being used as hydraulic oil?? I need to add some to it but not sure what to put in it. Learning curves.. Gotta love them.

Rob Gunn said:

I have around $3000 in mine but I dont know if thats what I would say its worth. If I was to try and sell it then I guess I would satr at what I have in it and then hope for the best. Of coarse its worth something in scrap price if I ever found that I had to make it go away...

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Rob, Does your's have the brake drum on top. I'm looking for any parts breakout on top mounted drum brake as I've got to repair but can figure out how to remove the square top piece. I think the previous owner must have welded it to the shaft. The center is filled in with what appears to be weld.

Actually a round piece with SQUARE bolt hole pattern. My mistake.

Markmox, I will have to look in my manual that I have and see if there is any diagrams that would help. I will get back with you ASAP.

OK I just have to put this out there. My old HD-12 has been sitting behind the barn for over 3 years without being started. Weeds growing up all around it and a bees nest in the cab. I had a little job for it on the farm this weekend. Put a fresh battery in it, gave it 2 seconds of ether to the air cleaner, hit the start button and the old girl fire right over and ran like new. Just gota love the old 453 Detroits!

Rob Gunn said:

OK I just have to put this out there. My old HD-12 has been sitting behind the barn for over 3 years without being started. Weeds growing up all around it and a bees nest in the cab. I had a little job for it on the farm this weekend. Put a fresh battery in it, gave it 2 seconds of ether to the air cleaner, hit the start button and the old girl fire right over and ran like new. Just gota love the old 453 Detroits!

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Yes! Just watch out for them to run away, be ready to jump out and hit decomp.!

Hello all,
I am new to this forum. I only joined because you all are talking about the C12HD and I cannot find specifics anywhere.
My dad bought one last year down around you Rob in Edwardsburg, MI and brought it up to South Haven MI. This girl has been very well used. Needs lots of little things. But like you say the 4-53 DD runs like day one!
I want to replace the return filter backflow indicator gauges as they are all warn out. The ones on the excavator currently are USGauge 26840-1 and read from -30 to 100. They only say VAC. and PRESS, no indication if mmHg, PSI of Bar. The filters are cartridge type.
Does any one know what range a backflow indicator gauge for the C12HD should be? or what the max back pressure should be?
I have looked in my service manual and all over the web and only found reference to change when indicated by the gauge. and depending on the equipment Bar, PSI or mmHg would be possibilities.

Welcome to the forum Jason! I do have manuals but won’t be able to get to them for another 10 days but when I do I’ll take a look if there’s any pressure figures in there.

Jason, I also have a set of manuals and I will take a look to see if any gauge info is available. I will be out of town till Monday so it may be a few days before I can get you a reply.

Thanks Spitzair and Rob,
I look forward to hearing back.
Jason ;-)

Jason, I regret that I have no information to help you. My manual has no mention of any gauge for the filter backflow. And Looking at my machine it doesn't have one installed. I assume it would be located at the filter block near the top of the tank? Wish I could help but I have nothing.

Hi Jason, my manuals don’t say anything about any filters either. My filters do have ports on the head but they’ve been plugged... sorry I can’t be of more help either. I did fire up my baby for the first time in a few years today, it fired up well and ran like a champ!

Jason,
I guess when in doubt then change the filters? Wish I could help more but I have no other info.

Well, here we are in 2024 and I am now going to try and resurrect this thread. I'm looking at a Hein c12hd track hoe (though the manual says backhoe) and I'm wondering if anyone knows some reasons why one-track tracks slower than the other. The levers are a little off from each other and the neutral detent seems to be missing, if you will. The engine fires right up and sounds good. I'll try to upload the vid of it running. Of course, after I got it running and started to raise the boom, a hydraulic line blew.

I'm trying to find out how to read the info plate. I know it's a c12hd but not sure the year or exact type of engine. Engine is stamped with GM diesel and it is a 4 cylinder. Here's some pics if I can get it to work.

old timer said:

Your going to love it, simple, basic and slow but cutting edge in the 60's. The pin and tumbler undercarriage is very rebuildable,(with a bit of paitence and a good welder) My father owned quite a few of these as well as larger ones, I cut my eye teeth fixing them, even went to the factory for service training in the 70's. The stick cylinder is pretty basic, it was probably removed to reweld the ram eye,a common break point(spent many a evening welding these back on). Any help I can give I will.

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Can you give me some pointers on why the left track on a Hein-Werner c12hd tracks slower than the right? Could it be just a simple dirty spool problem or is the hydraulic motor going out?

Hello Mission Man!
The engine in your machine will be a Detroit 4-53 2 stroke diesel. They are bullet proof engines and parts should still be available.
As for the left track being slower than the right there are several possibilities. Most likely the hydraulic swivel assembly from the upper unit to the lower has an internal leak. The second possible culprit could be the pump that supplies the left track is putting out less flow than the pump that supplies the right track. On your machine you’ll either have a single 3 section pump mounted directly to the bell housing of the engine, otherwise there will be a Funk brand drive unit to which they mounted 3 separate single section pumps. On the 3 section pump one section supplies the left track, one section the right track and the 3rd section is dedicated to the swing. With the separate pumps the idea is the same, ie. one pump supplies the left track, another the right track and the third the swing. You could swap the outputs from the pumps to see if the problem moves to the other track… if it does the pump is the culprit, if not then most likely the swivel. A third culprit could be the travel motor itself.
What I would do to narrow it down is to first swap the outputs from the pumps as they will be the easiest to access. If the problem stays on the same side, next I would swap drive motor hoses down underneath the machine and see if the problem moves to the other side. If it does, your swivel will be the culprit, if not then it’ll be the track motor.
Also, It’s entirely possible that the brake on the left side final drive is dragging causing that side to turn slower.
Hope that helps.

spitzair said:

Hello Mission Man!
The engine in your machine will be a Detroit 4-53 2 stroke diesel. They are bullet proof engines and parts should still be available.
As for the left track being slower than the right there are several possibilities. Most likely the hydraulic swivel assembly from the upper unit to the lower has an internal leak. The second possible culprit could be the pump that supplies the left track is putting out less flow than the pump that supplies the right track. On your machine you’ll either have a single 3 section pump mounted directly to the bell housing of the engine, otherwise there will be a Funk brand drive unit to which they mounted 3 separate single section pumps. On the 3 section pump one section supplies the left track, one section the right track and the 3rd section is dedicated to the swing. With the separate pumps the idea is the same, ie. one pump supplies the left track, another the right track and the third the swing. You could swap the outputs from the pumps to see if the problem moves to the other track… if it does the pump is the culprit, if not then most likely the swivel. A third culprit could be the travel motor itself.
What I would do to narrow it down is to first swap the outputs from the pumps as they will be the easiest to access. If the problem stays on the same side, next I would swap drive motor hoses down underneath the machine and see if the problem moves to the other side. If it does, your swivel will be the culprit, if not then it’ll be the track motor.
Also, It’s entirely possible that the brake on the left side final drive is dragging causing that side to turn slower.
Hope that helps.

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Thanks. Didn't even think about the brake. I'll check into the pump swap which is three pumps off the bell housing. Did the pics happen to load up? Oh, and you say the engine is two stroke? That's a new one on me. You don't need to do anything special with the fuel like you do with a gasoline two stroke do you?

I did see 2 pictures of your serial number tag, did you try to post other ones as well? As for the 2 stroke diesel, they were a very common engine back in the day, you’ll find them in trucks, boats, generators, sawmills, railroad equipment, construction equipment, basically you name it, chances are somebody used a Detroit Diesel to power it. These engines are very durable, make lots of noise, smoke and leak oil but you just can’t kill one. You don’t have to do anything to the fuel other than to dump it into your fuel tank and keeping it clean. It differs in a few ways from a gasoline 2 stroke engine in a few ways. The engine has an oil system just like any 4 stroke engine, so it has an oil pan, oil pump, filter(s) etc. It has one injector per cylinder that’s driven off the camshaft. A low pressure fuel pump draws the fuel from your tank and sends it through a filter to the high pressure fuel pump which then feeds if to the injectors in the cylinder head. There’s also a return line that sends excess fuel back to the tank.
One thing you need to be careful of with these engines is their reputation to “run away”. If the engine has been sitting a while the injector rack can get stuck so that there is no control over how much fuel the injector injects into the cylinder. Usually they stick in the wide open position and when you start the engine with a stuck rack the injector gives it full fuel and it revs uncontrollably with usually catastrophic results. There is a flapper valve installed on the air intake before the blower (more on that in a moment) to enable you to shut the engine down in the event of a runaway. This flapper valve is actuated by the emergency shutdown located on the back wall of your operator cab. Only use this to shut the engine down in an emergency as the flapper valve has to be reset after this and you run the risk of blowing the oil seals in the blower.
Right, the blower. Since this is a 2 stroke engine we need a way to get air into the cylinder at a somewhat higher pressure than atmospheric. On a gasoline 2 stroke engine such as in your chainsaw or snowmobile this is done by the crankcase itself. On these Detroits you find a blower, also known as a roots blower or supercharger, depending on who you ask, but they’re the same thing… what this blower does is provide a way for the engine to draw air in through the intake and then force it into the cylinder. There are no intake valves on this engine, instead there are intake ports around the bottom wall of the cylinder that open up when the piston gets far enough down in its stroke. At about the same time the exhaust valves (either 2 or 4 depending on the engine) open up and the blower forces fresh air into the cylinder and the exhaust gases out through the exhaust valves. Once the piston travels North again it covers the intake ports and the exhaust valves close. The piston keeps coming up compressing the air just like in a normal diesel engine. At just before TDC the injector sprays in some fuel, the fuel ignites and the piston, now past TDC gets forced down again. Once the intake ports get uncovered on the piston’s trip to BDC the cycle repeats.
Hope this all makes sense.

When these machines were in production they were offered with a Chrysler industrial V8 gas engine, a Perkins diesel, a Cummins diesel and the Detroit which was by far the most popular.

I also found this manual I posted some years ago, hope it may be of use to you!