Cat 252b2 4bt cummings swap

Hawk60 · Feb 17, 2019

Hello,
Im new to the site but not new to maintenance or mechanics. I purchased a cat 252b2 that needed a engine. It had the 3044 cat/perkins. A reman 3044 is outrageous. I found a complete 4bt for 2500 that I will be swapping. Will try to write up as much as possible. I havent found any detailed right up on these swaps if so let me know. Waiting on the new flywheel to come in then I will start on the build. This flywheel will fit the 4bt and will allow the stock flexplate/bowex to used.

Hawk60 · Feb 17, 2019

I know this is the cover but the 3044c housing measures out to be a sae 4, not a sae 3 like many have stated. The flywheel for the 3.4 perkins is also a sae 8 and 10 flywheel. I also found the perkins spec sheet after I did my own measurements. Which confirmed my measurements. I was able to find a sae 10 flywheel for the 4bt sae 3 bell housing. Now i need to find the pump mounting plate for the sae 3 bellhousing. Gonna get a quote for a sae 3 to sae 4 adapter or find a application that used a sae 3 plate that will accept my pump

Hawk60 · Feb 17, 2019

Pics continued. If anyone knows of a plate that will allow me to mount the pump let me know. May just go with the adapter that way if i ever had to sell and the next person will have the capability to go back with 3.4.

jacobd · Feb 18, 2019

The tandem pump should have a standard mounting surface. Probably SAE "B" or "C" if I had to guess. Seems like you should be able to find a plate to go from the bellhousing to pump if you know what both are. Or any machine shop should be able to make you one for a reasonable price. Is there anything unique about the factory plate?

Vetech63 · Feb 18, 2019

What was the problem with the original engine? Is it not rebuildable?

DoyleX · Feb 18, 2019

Vetech63 said:
What was the problem with the original engine? Is it not rebuildable?

This is the infamous cat/perk oil pump failure engine that wipes out the crank and block. I remember somebody on here did a 4bt swap and it wasnt exactly easy. The engines are setup backwards with the intake and exhaust on opposite sides if I remember.

I know it isnt right but id have the parts metalized/machined fixed and live with it as its gonna be a part time machine at this point in life anyway.

Vetech63 · Feb 18, 2019

Im wondering if the original engine was torn down and inspected. It would seem there is a lot of assumptions going straight to a swap out with fabrication. A lot of time and expense also

Nige · Feb 18, 2019

To the OP. How much per hour do you charge your labour at..? Your time must have some value.
I believe that when all is finished and you have a hybrid machine that will prove very difficult to figure out what parts came from where, that you will have more money invested in it than it would have cost you to buy a refurbished power unit of the same spec as the original. Just my opinion.

I will still be following this project with interest to see how it turns out.

Hawk60 · Feb 18, 2019

Just found a sae 3 plate, the guy is gonna get the measurements for me once he returns from vacation. I also have confirmed that I have a sae b pump. I took the measurements from the stock sae 4 plate.

Hawk60 · Feb 18, 2019

As far as the conditions of the orginal engine. Its down for the count without major machine work and parts. Due sitting out in the elements water has ruined this block. Also its missing main caps, stop turbo and manifold and rod caps. The 4bt that Im picking up for 2500.00 has 587 hours with everything. Just have to wire and plumb.
Stock used/reman engine was 6500 to 8500
Price list 4bt swap
Machine price - 3800.00
4bt 587 hours- 2500.00 pickup
Sae 3 flywheel - 157.00 + shipping
Sae 3 plate/Sae B - 95.00 + shipping once confirmed sae specs
Hoses n/a until fitment
Fuel line n/a unitl fitment

So I currently have 6,552.00 into the machine.

Cost of reman est. 12,300

Cost of lowest used engine price - 10,000

Rebuild engine parts/machine work/aftermarket parts. 12,600/10,435.

DMiller · Feb 18, 2019

Currently $$ in parts not time and not defined as a will replace well swap over which is still not yet installed. I am suspecting you will find that having bought a decent drop in and being back in business would have been the eventual cheaper faster alternative.

mikebramel · Feb 18, 2019

End result will be better and worth more if you can get the cummins to work out

Birken Vogt · Feb 18, 2019

DoyleX said:
This is the infamous cat/perk oil pump failure engine that wipes out the crank and block. I remember somebody on here did a 4bt swap and it wasnt exactly easy. The engines are setup backwards with the intake and exhaust on opposite sides if I remember.

I know it isnt right but id have the parts metalized/machined fixed and live with it as its gonna be a part time machine at this point in life anyway.

Sorry to take this sideways but I thought the oil pump failure was on the Shibaura based engine and this is the Mitsubishi engine is it not?

Can somebody educate me on which engine models cross over?

I thought it was

3034 = Perkins 404D-22
3044 = Mitsubishi S4S

KSSS · Feb 18, 2019

And don't forget the cost of the beer, I have to believe there are will be a lot of beer drank figuring out how to fab that together to make it work. I think I would just by pass the swap and go ice fishing and drink beer on the lake. Get a Reman and install it in no time, and go back to ice fishing. The additional money spent on the reman will be there in resale value when you want it back.

Hawk60 · Feb 18, 2019

As

KSSS said:
And don't forget the cost of the beer, I have to believe there are will be a lot of beer drank figuring out how to fab that together to make it work. I think I would just by pass the swap and go ice fishing and drink beer on the lake. Get a Reman and install it in no time, and go back to ice fishing. The additional money spent on the reman will be there in resale value when you want it back.

Fridge is stocked and have plenty of time to accomplish this project.

Hawk60 · Feb 18, 2019

Birken Vogt said:
Sorry to take this sideways but I thought the oil pump failure was on the Shibaura based engine and this is the Mitsubishi engine is it not?

Can somebody educate me on which engine models cross over?

I thought it was

3034 = Perkins 404D-22
3044 = Mitsubishi S4S

Your correct but it also crosses to a perkins 804c-33 I had the perkins. I like the 4bt and have done a few swaps in cars and trucks. Saw a video online of a 262 but no write up. Thought I would share the process.

Hawk60 · Feb 18, 2019

mikebramel said:
End result will be better and worth more if you can get the cummins to work out

I believe so myself. I like the 4bt easisly accessible to parts and good power. Very reliable but no engine is perfect by no means. But if i was to need to replace this one again still half the cost of the Mitsubishi/Perkins.Thought i would share the process on the swap.

Hawk60 · Feb 18, 2019

DMiller said:
Currently $$ in parts not time and not defined as a will replace well swap over which is still not yet installed. I am suspecting you will find that having bought a decent drop in and being back in business would have been the eventual cheaper faster alternative.

Not out of business still have a bobcat. This would be a back up to my bobcat. As far as time I enjoy doing things like this. Thought Id share the process. Being that it has accomplished before, twice from what I have read with no insight on the build.

Hawk60 · Feb 18, 2019

Nige said:
To the OP. How much per hour do you charge your labour at..? Your time must have some value.
I believe that when all is finished and you have a hybrid machine that will prove very difficult to figure out what parts came from where, that you will have more money invested in it than it would have cost you to buy a refurbished power unit of the same spec as the original. Just my opinion.

I will still be following this project with interest to see how it turns out.

I will be trying my best to use parts with p/n-serial numbers. So based on my research and observation the only part that will really have to be truly modified that will not have a part number will be the exhaust. But thats simple being that its on the same side as the outlet. Even the coolant hoses can be purchased later by part numbers.
Motor mounts and engine parts can all be found by part numbers. Unless the stock mounts works will find out when I get back to pick up the engine. I know that the rear mount with have to be change but i found that same on off a case loader. Everythings else will still be the cat 252 parts unless somthing changes down the road.

Vetech63 · Feb 18, 2019

Can we get at least 63 pages out of this!?

Cat 252b2 4bt cummings swap

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