Wabco scrapers at work

Buckethead said:

*rough reliable noisy buckets of awesome. There, I fixed it for you.

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You think! You all must be proud of the other famous name for Wabco "Widow Makers".Wabco lovers are a very very small minority,obviously Cat haters for what ever reasons and it may also be fact that Cats newer machines are garbage compared to the past but at least they are producing scrapers that alot of companies are buying because no one else including Dresser are able to supply.I will grant you one thing,they do sound great and its something to enjoy before the very important sense of hearing is lost for good.

squid_wood777 said:

You think! You all must be proud of the other famous name for Wabco "Widow Makers".Wabco lovers are a very very small minority,obviously Cat haters for what ever reasons and it may also be fact that Cats newer machines are garbage compared to the past but at least they are producing scrapers that alot of companies are buying because no one else including Dresser are able to supply.I will grant you one thing,they do sound great and its something to enjoy before the very important sense of hearing is lost for good.

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I was half joking but half serious. I am no Cat hater by any means. On the contrary, I prefer Cat for most types of equipment. And I love Cat scrapers having spent some of my nicest work days on 627s and 637s. But in my (I admit kind of limited) experience on a Wabco, it was not as bad as most people seem to think they are. My experience was on a later one with a steering wheel, not one of Robert LeTourneau's atomic age electrical marvels. It was an open bowl machine, not a self loader. I understand, maybe if I had to earn a living on one of the toggle switch steering or the WW2 era steering clutch machines I would feel differently. I grew up hearing my Dad and the other old timers say that the later Wabco self loaders could hog so much more dirt than the other makes, maybe that's why I have a fascination for them.

Buckethead said:

I was half joking but half serious. I am no Cat hater by any means. On the contrary, I prefer Cat for most types of equipment. And I love Cat scrapers having spent some of my nicest work days on 627s and 637s. But in my (I admit kind of limited) experience on a Wabco, it was not as bad as most people seem to think they are. My experience was on a later one with a steering wheel, not one of Robert LeTourneau's atomic age electrical marvels. It was an open bowl machine, not a self loader. I understand, maybe if I had to earn a living on one of the toggle switch steering or the WW2 era steering clutch machines I would feel differently. I grew up hearing my Dad and the other old timers say that the later Wabco self loaders could hog so much more dirt than the other makes, maybe that's why I have a fascination for them.

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I grew up amongst Wabco scrapers, Grand Dad and my father had a fleet of 4 Electric steer 333 elevating machines from '66 'til 1972. Those things could eat any 633 Cat for lunch. I have also been on 222F's and G's, 252's, later 333F's, 333ft's, and got to play with 353FT's. There is nothing that can outload a Wabco.
Some people scream about the electrical system being unreliable... that's because they don't understand it. I always thought they rode fairly well , considering you weren't sitting over the left hand tire. I have run Cat stuff too. Cush hitch doesn't make up for lack of production.

RZucker said:

There is nothing that can outload a Wabco.

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One of the old men who taught me when I was breaking in pointed at a pile of dirt one day at lunchtime and said, "If there's 30 yards in that pile you could climb a Wabco (forget what model number he said) up on it and it would paddle up the whole pile in one pass."

Buckethead said:

One of the old men who taught me when I was breaking in pointed at a pile of dirt one day at lunchtime and said, "If there's 30 yards in that pile you could climb a Wabco (forget what model number he said) up on it and it would paddle up the whole pile in one pass."

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That electric drive elevator made all the difference.

Im only having a little fun too guys.Each to their own and full respect to those who have spent some time on Wabco,s and whatever other make of machine and know whats going on.I must admit its a sad thing really that the solid old gear like Wabco Euclid and a few others arent built anymore.I spent some time on a R50 Euclid dumper when i first started working and that was a very good truck.We had 3 Wabco scrapers where i worked and they were electric steering with the switches and winches to open apron etc big long nose with the cab in the middle and a screaming detroit in it.A battery terminal came loose one day and the poor bloke went over the tailings dam wall instantly luckily he was o.k but they got rid of them quickly and got 2 terexs about the size of a 33 both elevators and they where the first scrapers i ever operated.We also had 6 international pay hauler 50 ton dumpers,2 hough 400 loaders about the same size as a 92 and 2 averling bradford i think thats the right name 6 wheel drive graders.The only cat gear we had were a D8k and 2 D9Gs so ive had time on other brands and compared to the tinny,plastic laden and some very unreliable cat and other foriegn crap it will only get worse.Least we are lucky enough to know what the good machines go like no matter what make coz as time goes by most wont even have on operator on them and thats very sad.

You know squid_wood777 what you say is very true. Very few (if any) new scraper operators in the industry will ever have the opportunity to operate anything but CAT scrapers. They will never know why older operators may prefer LeTourneau/Wabco, Euclid/Terex, Allis Chalmers/Fiat Allis, Komatsu or even International Harvester. And ultimately, as you say all machines will all be radio-controlled.

How is the eject cylinder/rear axle arranged on the large 333FT and 353FT Wabcos? Is it similar to the Cat 627/37 with a long cylinder in the open area between the LH/RH axle housings(only a small shaft connecting the LH side to the differential). Also wanted to see how the TS24Cs were done. I've never been around a Wabco and trying to visualize how the rear engines were mounted lower than the Cats. Anybody have a picture?

Questionable wizard said:

How is the eject cylinder/rear axle arranged on the large 333FT and 353FT Wabcos? Is it similar to the Cat 627/37 with a long cylinder in the open area between the LH/RH axle housings(only a small shaft connecting the LH side to the differential). Also wanted to see how the TS24Cs were done. I've never been around a Wabco and trying to visualize how the rear engines were mounted lower than the Cats. Anybody have a picture?

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The 333FT machines used a 3 stage telescoping cylinder and the 353's used two long stroke cylinders mounted under the rear axle housing. It's been a few years since I have seen any of these machines and no, I don't have any pics.

So if a 333FT and 353FT used telescoping cylinders, how did they retract? Springs? I suspected the cylinder under the axle to get the engine lower. Or a short cylinder attached to a lever to push the ejector.

Questionable wizard said:

So if a 333FT and 353FT used telescoping cylinders, how did they retract? Springs? I suspected the cylinder under the axle to get the engine lower. Or a short cylinder attached to a lever to push the ejector.

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No, the 333FT used a double acting telescoping cylinder, returned with hydraulic pressure. The 353 used 2 long single stage cylinders.
If I get a chance later this week I'll look and see if I can get some pics off a parts manual.

RZucker said:

It's been a few years since I have seen any of these machines and no, I don't have any pics.

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I still have 333s, extra motors, switch boxes. Machines have been sitting since 1990. 1-four-banger with toggle-switch steering water pull. Couple Wabco 339F V-12 powered open bowl all hydraulic scrapers.

Smaller local contractor re-powered 333s with Deutz engines to keep using Wabco egg-beaters. Parts are getting scarce.

Wabcos TIME FOR THE TORCH, but scrap iron prices won't pay for cutting them up.

Contractor Scraper Spreads; Cat focused/trained personnel. Off-brands parts sourcing can be disrupting; try to avoid equip that causes confusion to routine.

StanRUS said:

I still have 333s, extra motors, switch boxes. Machines have been sitting since 1990. 1-four-banger with toggle-switch steering water pull. Couple Wabco 339F V-12 powered open bowl all hydraulic scrapers.

Smaller local contractor re-powered 333s with Deutz engines to keep using Wabco egg-beaters. Parts are getting scarce.

Wabcos TIME FOR THE TORCH, but scrap iron prices won't pay for cutting them up.

Contractor Scraper Spreads; Cat focused/trained personnel. Off-brands parts sourcing can be disrupting; try to avoid equip that causes confusion to routine.

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Yeah, keeping the Wabcos going is as much work hunting for parts as working on them. I'm not missing that anymore.
Deutz powered 333's? That is interesting.

RZucker said:

Deutz powered 333's? That is interesting.

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Varner Construction; gov grant money for repowers, they put $$$ in their pockets. Deutz replacement parts are 'pricey' like all German engines-transmissions.

StanRUS said:

Varner Construction; gov grant money for repowers, they put $$$ in their pockets. Deutz replacement parts are 'pricey' like all German engines-transmissions.

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Any info on which engine they used?

RZucker said:

Any info on which engine they used?

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No, next time I am by their yard I'll take couple photos. Deutz repower was mid-2000; they also repowered 51Bs with 60 series. Deutz has 13.5 liter in-line 6 and 18.0 liter in-line 6 Tier4 finals, maybe for 60 series 14.0 liter engines replacements.

333s weak link was Allison blowing 1st-2nd clutch packs. Compared to Terex, Cat harder to work on under the machine instead of swinging the nose around 90deg and using truck-hoist.

StanRUS said:

No, next time I am by their yard I'll take couple photos. Deutz repower was mid-2000; they also repowered 51Bs with 60 series. Deutz has 13.5 liter in-line 6 and 18.0 liter in-line 6 Tier4 finals, maybe for 60 series 14.0 liter engines replacements.

333s weak link was Allison blowing 1st-2nd clutch packs. Compared to Terex, Cat harder to work on under the machine instead of swinging the nose around 90deg and using truck-hoist.

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I don't remember the low range clutch being much trouble in the 5965 Allisons in 333's, I saw more trouble in the splitter high clutch and the VIP convertor stator with operators that weren't too sharp on proper VIP use. The 5960's in the early 333's ate splitter clutches quite regularly until they updated to the extra 2 plates per pack.IIRC that pretty much made them a 5965.

What were the smallest twin engine Wabco scrapers? Open bowl and elevating? Most of our jobsites are too soft. Single engine scraper is guaranteed stuck. Late summer is about the only time you can run 627s around here and not be axle deep pumping the ground.

Questionable wizard said:

What were the smallest twin engine Wabco scrapers? Open bowl and elevating? Most of our jobsites are too soft. Single engine scraper is guaranteed stuck. Late summer is about the only time you can run 627s around here and not be axle deep pumping the ground.

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The smallest Wabco twins I remember were the 252 elevating machine and the 259 open bowl, that one was comparable to the 627 IIRC. Spent a few hours on a 252 with Michelin radials and it would get through stuff most other machines would not thanks to the Wabco differential.

What was the Wabco model before the 111A? It is basically the same without the VIP transmission. I was talking to a bloke tonight who has one that he wants to sell. The only problem with it is the rectifier. The machine was made in Australia.