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Wabco scrapers at work

DMiller

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Well NOT Wabco. by what I can figure is a Clark Michigan, but has been repowered and does NOT function anymore.

IMG_3443.JPG
 

RZucker

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Well NOT Wabco. by what I can figure is a Clark Michigan, but has been repowered and does NOT function anymore.

View attachment 179266
Clark-Michigan 290M tractor with a LeT -Westinghouse 18 yard scraper. The army had several versions of mix and match tractors and scrapers for this application. Cat made one tractor, MRS made another, I think Euclid made another scraper option too. The version in your pic seemed to be the most popular combination. I used to work on several of them, IIRC the Cummins engine was rated at 375HP and they were good loading machines, the weak point I remember was the fiber discs coupling the convertor to the engine. Dumb idea, but it's common Twin-Disc co. idea.
 

old-iron-habit

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What I see here anymore instead of scrapers are massive high yardage excavators to lines of dump wagons. Most of the trucks are Volvo while the excavators are Cat or Komatsu. Move a lot of dirt in short order and do not leave much dress out work behind when done with the dig outs. Fella on a site told me were using 1/3 less fuel and moving 1/2 again more dirt per day this method over scrapers with elevations changes more rapid.

This method has just about eliminated the dewatering of sites like the days of old. Off road trucks taking muck out and bringing good fill back. It is all you see around here any more.
 

Skwerl

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Utah
So I have a job coming up, currently weighing the ideas of subbing it out, or there is a set of 222Gs near me for dirt cheap. (2 running 1 parts machine). My dad is a retired heavy equipment mechanic (one of those guys who bleeds Cat yellow) he says I can't keep these things running, but I have read over and over they are a fairly dependable machine. I need to move 100k yards. Any thoughts...
 

DMiller

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They will be maintenance heavy and parts availability an issue, you could end up with one working two for parts until that fails a common already used piece and then you have three yard ornaments. Subbing may end up quicker, more economic financially and time wise.
 

Skwerl

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Subbing may end up quicker, more economic financially and time wise.[/QUOTE]

Yes, from the word go we will be on a time crunch. If, "IF", we can keep these going, they would more than pay for themselves. That is why I came to this forum to find out peoples experiences are with Wabco. I can buy all 3 for less than I can buy a comparable Cat. My dad's experience with Wabco scrapers goes back to a company he worked for that still had one of the old electric steer models, but he has a point in the fact that you can't get parts for the off brands. He owns Cat 966 out of the
50s that I can still buy parts directly from Cat. 15 years ago or so I worked for a small company. The guy owned 2 International TD20 dozers they worked hard all day, every day he also had 2 parts machines. Those dozers worked for him for about 8 years before he gave up and bought a D9H to replace them. I understand what it is to rob parts and scab things just make these things work. Maybe you are right about it being more economical to sub this out, but I keep going back to the thought that it is only 100,000 yards. It is one job not trying to keep them forever. I don't mean to argue, it is just that I am leaning towards buying them. I know it is a gamble, but if it works, they would more than pay for themselves.

Also, what are the common fail parts on the 222G? Anyone have experience with this? What do I need to watch for when inspecting these?
 
Last edited:

mowingman

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SE Ohio
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Another good option might be to just rent a couple of scrapers by the week or the month, until you are done with them. I like short term rental units, as the rental company takes care of all the repairs and I can concentrate on getting the job done, not be out chasing parts
 

RZucker

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Subbing may end up quicker, more economic financially and time wise.

Yes, from the word go we will be on a time crunch. If, "IF", we can keep these going, they would more than pay for themselves. That is why I came to this forum to find out peoples experiences are with Wabco. I can buy all 3 for less than I can buy a comparable Cat. My dad's experience with Wabco scrapers goes back to a company he worked for that still had one of the old electric steer models, but he has a point in the fact that you can't get parts for the off brands. He owns Cat 966 out of the
50s that I can still buy parts directly from Cat. 15 years ago or so I worked for a small company. The guy owned 2 International TD20 dozers they worked hard all day, every day he also had 2 parts machines. Those dozers worked for him for about 8 years before he gave up and bought a D9H to replace them. I understand what it is to rob parts and scab things just make these things work. Maybe you are right about it being more economical to sub this out, but I keep going back to the thought that it is only 100,000 yards. It is one job not trying to keep them forever. I don't mean to argue, it is just that I am leaning towards buying them. I know it is a gamble, but if it works, they would more than pay for themselves.

Also, what are the common fail parts on the 222G? Anyone have experience with this? What do I need to watch for when inspecting these?[/QUOTE]
IF, and that's a big IF... If those machines have been lovingly maintained and the parts machine isn't a stripped skeleton, depending on the price I might do it. Do some research on parts availability first. I've been out of the Wabco world for so long I'm not sure where to look anymore.
I've seen many an older Wabco go hundreds of hours with only minor issues. And hopefully the owner can give you a fully set of manuals to go with the machines. Not having a lot of experience with 222G's I really cant tell you what to look for, run the elevators and listen to motors and gearboxes, check to make sure they steer well, slop in the linkage can create issues. If at all possible try to run them in at least 4th gear and listen for odd noises, they whine a bit normally but shouldn't pop or shudder. Make sure the bottom of the final drive case isn't leaking oil around the bull gear bowls, that's a pain to fix.
Best of luck on this quest, The G models had plenty of power and could move pretty fast.
 

terex herder

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Nov 10, 2017
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Kansas
I've got quite a few hours in a 111A, none in any of the larger units. I'd be sure to check the electrics for the chain drive. How much can you slow the engine before the contactors chatter or drop out?

If you buy the Wabcos and they don't work out, will you still have enough money to rent other equipment or hire out the job? Or is this a Hail Mary?
 

Skwerl

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Messages
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Location
Utah
I've got quite a few hours in a 111A, none in any of the larger units. I'd be sure to check the electrics for the chain drive. How much can you slow the engine before the contactors chatter or drop out?

If you buy the Wabcos and they don't work out, will you still have enough money to rent other equipment or hire out the job? Or is this a Hail Mary?

Not a complete Hail Mary, this is our own project. The money folks have approved me for more than enough to hire this out.... The less I borrow, the less I pay back. I can buy these Wabcos for less than 2 months rent. Figured I'd sell them when the job is complete. Or let them sit, but we don't very often have need of a scraper. Our other equipment will be on site as well. If we got desperate I could move a lot of dirt with bellydumps, dumptrucks, loaded with excavators and loaders. This is only a Hail Mary in the sense that if they would run for me they would make me a lot of money in one shot. But, if they don't run, big deal, I'm not out that much anyway.
 

Showpony

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Jan 29, 2009
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193
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Canterbury New Zealand
Subbing may end up quicker, more economic financially and time wise.

Yes, from the word go we will be on a time crunch. If, "IF", we can keep these going, they would more than pay for themselves. That is why I came to this forum to find out peoples experiences are with Wabco. I can buy all 3 for less than I can buy a comparable Cat. My dad's experience with Wabco scrapers goes back to a company he worked for that still had one of the old electric steer models, but he has a point in the fact that you can't get parts for the off brands. He owns Cat 966 out of the
50s that I can still buy parts directly from Cat. 15 years ago or so I worked for a small company. The guy owned 2 International TD20 dozers they worked hard all day, every day he also had 2 parts machines. Those dozers worked for him for about 8 years before he gave up and bought a D9H to replace them. I understand what it is to rob parts and scab things just make these things work. Maybe you are right about it being more economical to sub this out, but I keep going back to the thought that it is only 100,000 yards. It is one job not trying to keep them forever. I don't mean to argue, it is just that I am leaning towards buying them. I know it is a gamble, but if it works, they would more than pay for themselves.

Also, what are the common fail parts on the 222G? Anyone have experience with this? What do I need to watch for when inspecting these?[/QUOTE]

From our experience 222gs Achilles heals are, transmissions, every 6- 8000 hours replace the large double race roller bearing that supports the torque converter. Do not be tempted to up the engine hp,. N70s are where you should be. Never power hop, change direction without halting, or steer row the machine when stuck. The differential pinon will fail if abused. Never forward water with a 222g equipped with cowl intake air cleaners, If your 222 does not have a snorkel air cleaner housing with a good precleaner, change it. 29.5 x 29 tires seem to have issues with broken drive axles from time to time but i have never heard of this occurring with 29.5 x 25. If oil is leaking from the elevator motor gear box fix it immediately, leaks are usually a precursor to bearing failure. Never operate them with the engine covers off or loose. If you ever remove a front wheel use a torque multiplier to re tighten the lugs to 1350 ft/lb. Watch when turning off banks, they will bury their nose and bugger the radiator. Make sure you get a set of manuals and the set of special splined service sockets and spanners. Don't sweat the final drive crack/ leak issue too much, they are a big job to fix, but I have never seen the cracks travel beyond the factory welds, if you can live with the crack so will the machine. Do not let the cutting edge wear so it is above the spreader bar when it is down otherwise a lot of damage to the ejector mechanism and rams will result. When operating, always start the elevator before material gets to it, never run the elevator without material under it, always shut the elevator off before you raise the bowl, never cut or try to load around corners. Dont be frightened by the electrics, they are simple and very reliable, attention should be paid to the contactors to ensure they are clean and aligned, and all the associated connections are tight. Always run good batteries. If you have trouble talk to AC people (electrical engineers), the DC (auto electricians) guys are not trained to understand the system. Parking brake, if it still has one ensure it works correctly and the operator uses it correctly, otherwise remove or disable it, more than a few of these machines have gone up in smoke because they where operated with the park brake engaged, when you see the location of the park brake drum you will appreciate the importance of this warning.. Otherwise they are great piece of machinery.
On the plus side they would be the most productive 22 yard single engine elevating scraper made. They ride well, and are comparatively quite, Cab ergonomics where 50 years ahead of their time. The letournea limited slip differential gets them thru going where others falter. There are very few castings in a wabco, even in the event of a catastrophic mechanical misadventure things can be stuck back together. Thanks to the internet there is better parts back up now than there was in 1980. There are no dealers so you never pay dealer prices.
 

RZucker

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img_1519702705317873900.jpg


One of our former machines going up for auction in George, Washington on May 18, 2018.
https://www.yarbro.com/project/details/27497/

Marlow
Word I got was #14 brought $7K locally and #12 brought $6K online. I know the buyer of #14 and immediately got a phone call with questions. Here I go again.:D
 

DMiller

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Went on a Scooter ride to Greely CO this last week, visiting a Brother of mine. Saw a REAL Wabco at Hays KS on a construction site recently opened. Sitting nosed to the highway easement and definitely a Wabco. 1670 miles in four travel days on the HD Saddle.
 

squid_wood777

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Aug 10, 2014
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Hey Marlow

Love shots of how to fill up a water cart! That out does anything I have ever seen tried.

I have too say I have never been lucky enough to have a go at one of these big beasts but they certainly look as if they would have been a lot of fun. Certainly far superior to the Cat 639 (only ever seen photos of these as well).

I posted a couple more shots of my 229F under the Wabco Scraper Pics thread.

Below is a shot of a V Power C'Pull here in Canberra. Australia back in 1973-4. The guy operating it taught me the skills of the trade and is avery good friend.

Cheers
Gordon
Yer right far superior than 639s.Nearly every 39 ever made would be still running ,most of them are in Western Australia.Dont see any wabco,s of any size anymore out here and since alot of the earthmoving companies in the states like Sukut Indies Peeds etc run Cat i wouldnt think there are very many Wabco,s anywhere and i guess that would be mainly due to the fact they are rough unreliable noisy buckets of garbage.
 

Tones

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[QUOTE="squid_wood777, post: 779202, member: 43708" i wouldnt think there are very many Wabco,s anywhere and i guess that would be mainly due to the fact they are rough unreliable noisy buckets of garbage.[/QUOTE]On a job a bloke there had a 623 and a 222. His comments about Cat verses Wabco were "if I could find more Wabco's I'd buy them. They are faster loading, faster traveling and better spreading than any Cat Iv'e owned by 1/3". A pretty sad indictment wouldn't you think.

PS A rough riding operator makes a rough riding machine.
 

Gord229

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Yer right far superior than 639s.Nearly every 39 ever made would be still running ,most of them are in Western Australia.Dont see any wabco,s of any size anymore out here and since alot of the earthmoving companies in the states like Sukut Indies Peeds etc run Cat i wouldnt think there are very many Wabco,s anywhere and i guess that would be mainly due to the fact they are rough unreliable noisy buckets of garbage.
Amazing that Cat stopped producing the 639 in 1984 because "...it never quite found its niche in the market..." Eric Orlemann Caterpillar Chronicle p108, yet Wabco continued to produce 353FT's until is sold out to Dresser. The last Australian delivery in 1985 which is still working today for Footstool Earthmoving in New South Wales. I think you need to learn a lot more about the history of the Letourneau/Wabco machinery and its operation before making wildly inaccurate statements. My 229F still run rings around a Cat 621G, and I should know, I operate both!
 

squid_wood777

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Amazing that Cat stopped producing the 639 in 1984 because "...it never quite found its niche in the market..." Eric Orlemann Caterpillar Chronicle p108, yet Wabco continued to produce 353FT's until is sold out to Dresser. The last Australian delivery in 1985 which is still working today for Footstool Earthmoving in New South Wales. I think you need to learn a lot more about the history of the Letourneau/Wabco machinery and its operation before making wildly inaccurate statements. My 229F still run rings around a Cat 621G, and I should know, I operate both!
To say they never found their niche in the market wouldnt be exactly right.According to a article i read the earthmoving business (civil) in the states around that time died in the a$/= abit and the demand wasnt there,in fact a few companies in the states who had 39s and had no work for them sold most of them to OZ companies who couldnt get enough of them.Conflicting stories on how many were built but ive seen figures from Gavin 84W and he works for cat in Sydney and so im taking his word that there were 39 made.There would be 20 or so in West Oz,doubt if theres 20 Wabcos anywhere in West oz.Wabcos had their place no doubt but that was long ago,as did Euclid and a few others but there no longer produced so to say that a few small operators that still run them are proof that they are the machine is not right either.They may not be able to afford the over the top prices that Cat charge for their machines.As for not knowing about Letourneau wabco history ive read most articles i come across about scrapers weather they be cat wabco or whatever make and i know who made the first ones but i also know who made the the most and who made the best and that would be Cat.
 

Tones

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who made the best and that would be Cat.
For a long long time has never made the best ,dozer, excavator, grader or anything else in their line including skidsteers What Cat does is out spend the others in marketing $ to mop up suckers who believe in their BS. The bright ones buy elsewhere.
 
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