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580 Super L Injector Pump question

Billyw

New Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2018
Messages
2
Location
Fort Worth, TX
I have a 94 580 Super L with the Case 4T390. Had it about 8 years and approximately every other year it goes to missing, then shuts down and I spend a day or two bleeding air from the injector lines and when it is satisfied it runs and everything is back to normal…..apparently it is that time of the year as it performed this trick about a week ago and I am still seeing air in the lines and this time it won’t fire off….no black smoke, nothing…just fuel and air bubbles. I have been told by several friends that it is the injection pump and I just need to replace it once and for all. It’s a Bosch and I have never replaced one…my question is does the new pump have to be timed (somehow) or is it just a matter of removing the old one and putting in the new?
 

catskinner 10

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Jul 26, 2008
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Metro-East IL.
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Retired Operator/Master Mechanic 55Yr Member IUOE
Yes, it is timed to the engine.
The North American 580L had a Lucas CAV pump.
The series 2 had a inline Bosch which is what you said you have correct?

Regardless you need to bar the engine over until you get on #1 TDC.
There is a timing pin you push in on the front cover.
Put slight thumb pressure on it as you bar the engine over by hand.
When the pin goes in your at TDC
Tom
 

thepumpguysc

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Mar 18, 2010
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Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
It has a timing pin on the engine AND on the pump..
The timing pin on the engine is UNDER the pump.. the pin on the pump is mid way.. just left of the throttle.
it has a big cap nut.. remove the cap nut & the pin is in there..
just MAKE SURE the POINTER is in the window before popping-off the gear..
The new/rebuilt pump will come back to u w/ the pump timed w/ the timing pin engaged..
Don't forget to remove the pin in the pump before your final torque on the pump drive OR you'll snap the pin in 2..
You HAVE TO HAVE A PULLER to pop the gear off the pump drive..
Cummins has a tool to bar the engine over.. its an external splined socket.. & a MUST HAVE tool.. it makes the job actually enjoyable.. its about 35.00 & the puller is about the same price.. but excellent tools to have..
The tools are used on a lot of diff. applications..
OH.. you have to access the front of the pump.. that big plastic "cap" UNSCREWS.. & its TIGHT>!!!
U need a BIG strap wrench or BIG channel locks to get it off..
U probably don't have a pump problem.??
its prob. the lift pump that's goobed-up.. or a floater in the tank.??
CHECK the overflow valve on the pump return line.. its a banjo type return & the "bolt" has a check ball & spring.. THEY BREAK all the time.. P#> 2 417 413 083 your local fuel shop will have it IN-STOCK..
Good luck
 
Last edited:

rickw

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Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
227
Location
ohio
Check for rust clogging line/ filters. I just had issue w/ my super l. Filter looked fine but loosing power. I hooked a suction unit up to line before sediment filter and pulled a big slug of rust particels out of line and tank. Been running good since.
 

thepumpguysc

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Mar 18, 2010
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Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
Yup.. that big steel tank is known to be the source of a lot of "supposed" inj. pump problems..
Like Rick said> Rust..
Same w/ the lift/supply pump AND the overflow valve.
I cant count the # of pump O/H's I've done, only to get a call saying "its doing the same thing"..
My response would be> "did u change the lift pump like I told u to??"
"because I didn't find anything in the pump, to cause your problem."..
 

Coy Lancaster

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Dec 19, 2014
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service tech
Also check for an air leak in your supply hose going to lift pump and look for a pin hole in inline filter. And check to make sure all your banjo bolt seals are good.
 

Billyw

New Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2018
Messages
2
Location
Fort Worth, TX
Wow, great answers…now I have to rethink this….the first time this happened I drained the fuel tank (as much as I could as there appear to be baffles in the bottom), and there was a lot of trash and rust and small particles…so am I back there again given how much time has passed since I did that (5-6 years ago)? I have changed the fuel filter twice now and the lift pump has always worked fine (manually) to top off the new filter. In this latest round I started by bleeding past the filter (bleed valve between filter and injection pump) to make sure there was no air going into the injection pump…and it was solid fuel…no air bubbles. If the lift pump was bad wouldn’t I have air in the line before the injection pump? I currently have air in the individual lines coming out of the injection pump…air at the individual lines for each injector and a ton of air on the return line going back into the pump. I don’t think I noticed this in previous episodes…but when I break each line (at the injectors) to bleed air, it seems to take a second or two before I see a good squirt of fuel…as if it somehow bled off from that line or was somehow air-locked inside the line. I will definitely check the overflow valve at the pump return line for the check ball and spring. I guess my question is could a poor lift pump cause this type of behavior or would this be more likely an injection pump that has poor seals/gaskets and is somehow sucking air internally?
 

thepumpguysc

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Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
its either the lift pump or a weak overflow valve or both..
Even w/ a gauge u cant tell which one is bad.. if the reading is low below 25psi.. which is it?? a bad lift pump not supplying enough fuel or a bad overflow, not holding the fuel?? Just replace one.. & if that does fix it, replace the other..
The overflow valve holds the pressure in the fuel gallery..
..the lift pump puts fuel in the fuel gallery..
 

rickw

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Dec 4, 2012
Messages
227
Location
ohio
I changed my lift pump when I had the issues. It is easy and only around $100. Still had issues so that is when I hooked up my mighty vac fluid extractor and pulled a slug of sentiment out of the hose. So we drained tank replaced all rubber hoses and filters again. I did find that using manual button on lift pump and bleeder screw that I could not get filter to fill all the way up. I kept getting air and lose of power. So I loosened filter while pumping until fuel flowed out and tightened it while still pumping to assure filter was completely full. I am no expert, Just trying to share the stuff I did on the same machine w/ similar issue.
 

Dave Neubert

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Jul 18, 2018
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1,649
Location
Monroe NC
The fuel going into your injection pump is pressurized so I don't think you are getting air from the injection pump.Lift pump and fuel lines would be more likely the source if you have trash in the tank you can get a particle caught in the check valve in the lift pump. I would say pull the tank have it hot tanked replace all supply lines and lift pump
 

Delmer

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Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,864
Location
WI
hot tank is the cleaning tank an engine rebuilder uses, like a caustic mix that eats away the grease before machining.

Lots of ways to go if you can remove the tank. It's a little tougher if you can't remove the tank, but doable. A small tank for testing purposes is handy, then you know where your problem is, and don't waste your time chasing dead ends.
 

Dave Neubert

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Jul 18, 2018
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Location
Monroe NC
Hot tank is a caustic mixture that removes paint grease rust and anything else most engine machine shops have one
 
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