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Small predicament......I think

Vetech63

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
6,362
Location
Oklahoma
I got a call yesterday, Company owner wants me to look over a CAT invoice he received on a no start situation on a CAT CB64. To make a long story short, I originally called CAT field service to come out and do ET on the engine. The tech would contact me regarding anything he found. This turned out to be a 2 week long ordeal, with the problem starting off being an ECM problem, which turned out not to be the issue. Then it was a bad ignition relay, which was not the problem...….and so on and so forth. Then I was told by the tech that the original ignition relay was a 24 volt relay which is in a 12 volt system. (?) He changed the relay 3 times (I was told the 1st 2 were faulty parts). and now that the relay has been replaced with a 12 volt...….the machine seems to be fine.

So.....Im thinking the customer was billed the ENTIRE process, from start to finish. I had talked to the tech when he finished the machine and he was relieved it worked. He was very frustrated that second week and had called me a time or 2 confused at what he was finding, and had also been on the phone with tech support several times during the process.

Now, I know the tech had a hell of a time with this project......I can relate. But...….should the customer pay for misdiagnosis and teardown of those? I really don't want to throw anyone under the bus but I don't want the customer getting screwed either. If you were sitting in front of your customer in this situation.....what would your course of action be? I'll be in THAT seat in the morning.o_O
 

ianjoub

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2018
Messages
1,437
Location
Homosassa, FL USA
Customer should pay for diagnosis and replacement (one time) of an ignition relay, period. The tech can't possibly say the ECM needed to be replaced to continue diagnosis only to find a bad relay, that is BS.

I owned and operated an auto repair facility for 10 years. I had to eat it on a misdiagnosis once or twice. I would never screw a customer for my mistake.
 

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,305
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
I have done it more than once or twice myself.

The customer pays what it should have cost if I showed up, diagnosed the problem correctly, fixed it, and left.
 

RTSmith

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
420
Location
Middle Tenn.
Occupation
Amateur demolition & dirt pusher
What Birken said. I had a large auto shop for 15 years, now a RV shop for 20. We don't ask you to pay for our on the job training...
 

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,305
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
What Birken said. I had a large auto shop for 15 years, now a RV shop for 20. We don't ask you to pay for our on the job training...

Unless you bring in something bizarre, one-of-a-kind, unsupported, no manuals available, not likely to ever see one again. Then it will be strictly T&M because our OJT will never be but to good use in the future.
 

truckdoctor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
152
Location
reno nevada
Occupation
mechanic
You are not going to throw the tech under the bus if you go in and contest the bill. What will probably happen if you contest the bill is they will reduce it and have a general discussion with the field service crew. The tech himself will probably have it as a rework mark on his review but it won't be a firing offense unless this isn't the only one. Business is business, it's not personal. The dealer is going to tack everything on the bill in hopes that you will pay it. They will take it off if you contest it. It's an internal game to keep their losses down. I've been in those situations before as a tech. Normally I would go into my supervisor and explain what happened and they would take it off. Sometimes they won't to try to get the bill paid. I've had discussions with the customers before where I have told them if they have a problem with the bill to go contest it. I've also told them if they have a problem with me that we need to fix it. Go and contest the bill. They should have money set aside in their budget to cover it.
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,257
Location
Canada
I think sometimes it depends on the mechanic. Even the best mechanic can miss something or be stumped but then there are other mechanics that try to pad the bill or take short cuts that can result in it taking longer than it should have. I think the honest guys will take some time off if they feel it took too long.

When I did landscaping I reduced bills on occasion because it took a little longer than the estimate or ran into something odd that made it take longer than expected. A customer can be ecstatic when you take 1/2 an hour or an hour off the bill. They feel like they're getting a discount. Other customers would complain no matter what you charged and/or figure it's up for negotiating. If I feel it was honest work, I'll stick to my bill. Customers attitude plays a role too. It's easier to take a little off for a happy customer than for one that tries to find things to complain about in order to try and get the bill reduced.
 

Tractorguy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
174
Location
NC
We didn’t all and still don’t start a job knowing completely everything about what we are working on, everyone has to start somewhere and that has been a tough pill to swallow at times. There is however a reasonable amount of time and logical that should goes into a diagnostic process. It does seem as though he was slightly inexperienced with the route taken. I have offered to split differences or eaten time in the past because of being uncertain in situations. But evidence is evidence as well. Parts mentioned that were “bad” could be easily tested either way. But the issue can still be addressed in a positive manner without being negative or condescending.
 

oceanobob

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
751
Location
oceano california
Occupation
general contractor
If there was a way I could say nothing then that is what I would do as I was taught: 'if you aint got nuthin good to say, how about you say nuthin at all.....'
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,865
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
Doesn't much matter anymore with dealers. Most all of them suck when it comes to screw up mechanics and rotted jobs. Basically if a doctor kills a cancer patient it still costs. If a lawyer loses a case you still pay. If a mechanic can't fix a machine you still pay. The key is negotiation with a big stick. If you are getting no where after a rotted repair, let people know! Make noise.
I was at the local Cat dealer years ago getting some parts when this great big well known logger came into the store and asked for a certain sales rep using long strings of expletives loud enough that many people in the store either found other places to go or came rushing out trying to keep the damage to a minimum. The fella was successful enough that the ploy was named after him. Plenty of loggers used the Walker approach to get negotiations started.
 

Vetech63

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
6,362
Location
Oklahoma
I got to look at the bill from CAT this last Friday even though the owner was out of town. It looked like they had made reasonable adjustments to the bill that was satisfactory to me...…...basically meaning that what was charged was within my realm of fairness under the circumstances. I explained this to the owner via phone and he was happy with it. The bill was just under $2400.00 with $500.00 of trip charges included. I'm tickled with this as to the fact that I didn't end up in that awkward position I was expecting. On to the next project!...…………………..and Thanks for the input fellas!
 

Steve Bowman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Messages
194
Location
Southern Ohio
Occupation
Maintenance
After "adjusting" the invoice, it was still $2400 to replace an ignition relay? And the owner is happy?:eek:

I can see why you are tickled but confused as to your role. From your 1st post, you refer to the customer, the owner and the CAT tech.


My God.o_O
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,257
Location
Canada
I think the company is one of Vetech63's customers and the owner trusts him but in this case needed a Cat tech had to come in to diagnose something. The company owner thought the bill was too high so asked Vetech63 to intervene.
 

Vetech63

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
6,362
Location
Oklahoma
I think the company is one of Vetech63's customers and the owner trusts him but in this case needed a Cat tech had to come in to diagnose something. The company owner thought the bill was too high so asked Vetech63 to intervene.
Correct! The company owner I have known for 25 years so there is definitely a lot of trust there. I don't have the ability to perform CAT ET on anything, so they were called out to do so.
 
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