//// Overheated engine but dodged a bullet ?? /////

HI All,

Recently my day driver was driving my 1999 International 4700 with DT 466E engine and noticed a funny antifreeze smell so he pulled over to see what was going on.

As he pulled over he said he noticed alot of steam so he called me (he also indicated a strong antifreeze smell inside the cad and even some antifreeze on the floorboard inside the truck ).

Based on his info I almost assumed a blown heater core and I thought maybe the heater could be bypassed to continue the trip (of course after adding antifreeze etc...). However, the driver also said he thought steam was coming from the large upper radiator house....

Once he said that I knew we had to be towed since I was out of town and could not rescue him with a hose repair on the side of the road.

Anyways, the truck was towed to our shop and I asked my girlfriend to ensure the tow driver had disconnected the driveshaft and I instructed her to put a "do NOT use" taped onto the steering wheel so other night shift drivers would not use the truck until it was fixed.

Later that day we needed to catch up on deliveries so an extra driver was called in to take out the 2000 International to help out on a route (I was the one he was helping).

As the relief driver approached me I began cursing......WTF !

He had done a pick up and met up with me to consolidate a load in the parking lot with the truck that had blown the hose earlier that same day....and NO no repairs were even done yet !!! UGH...

The drive from the shop to the pick up point to my meeting point by the highway was about 25 miles or about 43 minutes drive time....

Turns out my girlfriend forgot to put the note on the steering wheel (not to use the truck) AND despite the driver having a key for our 2000 international (key even marked 2000) and him using only the 2000 up to that point (the trucks do differ in the details and are not exactly alike but very similar) the driver STILL put it into the 1999 international truck and it started it (although with some jiggling the driver said)....not realizing it was not his truck (how brain dead is THAT?).

Anyways, after replacing the top hose and putting coolant back in the truck seems to run OK (no funny noises etc)....

BUT....After the first nights drive after the above fiasco , I had to fill the overflow tank back up (almost empty...I was surprised it did not kick off a warning light or something).

The next night the tank remained pretty much full

Admittedly BEFORE this incident, I had to put a little antifreeze into the overflow tank every week or so....never any signs of leakage or dripping so I was at a loss where the fluid was going....

I checked the oil and it is NOT milky....whew.

One concern tho was the top of the dipstick (under the cap) had always been a little rusty (not on the outside but on the inside where you read the oil level, just towards the top)....after the incident , it seems more "moist" then I remember it and pulling out the dipstick seems to have some brownish smears here and there (I did degrease the engine to make leaks easier to find (and also to make changing out the other hoses (if 1 blows better change them all just in case because they are old probably) and belts cleaner to do..... so maybe some water went into the dip stick area?

Anyways, am I being overly paranoid?....What would you do if the above scenario happened to you? would retorquing the heads be advisable or just leave well enough alone?

BTW the driver said he though the truck had an antifreeze smell to it....UGH

The mechanic did note come whitish streaks towards the back of the engine but nothing was outwardly leaking or even wet at that time

I do plan on changing the oil because it's probably a little past due anyways.

Thanks in advance for any and all help / advice

Andrew

In the last year I have been through 4 engines with internal coolant leaks, liner O-rings in all cases. Rust under the dipstick plug is a good indication, but not always, Brownish "baby poo" in the fill tube or vent tube is usually a sure indication. For some reason none of these engines had milky oil, I suspect the heat was boiling off the water at the same rate it was entering the crankcase.
The best thing to do is pressurize the cooling system and watch for external leaks and if possible keep the pressure up over the weekend, then crack the drain plug on the pan and look for coolant. I hope you don't find any.

another option is to pull an oil sample and have it tested for anti-freeze in the oil.

I can't see any reason you wouldn't test the oil. Cat SOS kit was $11 the last time I bought a pack, what does $11 get you on an engine???

Delmer said:

I can't see any reason you wouldn't test the oil. Cat SOS kit was $11 the last time I bought a pack, what does $11 get you on an engine???

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If my income depended on a machine that $11.00 at each oil change would be some of the best money spent. Just catching one major failure be for it happened would pay for dozens of those sample kits.

Just finding that an engine is showing higher silicon in the oil than another might let you catch a crack in an air cleaner housing before the engine starts showing signs of a problem. And one sample is of very little use for most problems. It is the trends you really need to be watching.

kshansen said:

If my income depended on a machine that $11.00 at each oil change would be some of the best money spent. Just catching one major failure be for it happened would pay for dozens of those sample kits.

Just finding that an engine is showing higher silicon in the oil than another might let you catch a crack in an air cleaner housing before the engine starts showing signs of a problem. And one sample is of very little use for most problems. It is the trends you really need to be watching.

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Umm, guys... They aren't my trucks. If the owners wont pull samples its their business. But when they bring me a truck, my method seems to be faster than mailing a sample and waiting on results... Just sayin.

That suggestion to check the pressure of the cooling system is valid from my limited experience as my DT466 always 'used just a little coolant' and indeed showed some minor traces of coolant chemicals in the oil samples taken over the past few years.... then one day she started rappin and I did the pressure test and it didnt hold any pressure overnight and additionally put some coolant into the pan. Off it went for an inframe and there the evidence was clear.
That saga is reported on this forum as DT 466b tapping and knocking....that single pressure test told the tale of what would be found inside.

First, I'd reprimand the driver for taking a truck out low on coolant without topping it off.
Now, the fun... The second gen DTs used a very soft set of o-rings to seal the bottom of the liners. They swell in the presence of oil, which also means they're deteriorating slowly. They also use a dinky little water pump. The belt tension is usually more than the shaft bearing can support. Grab the pulley and see if you can rock it. If you can, odds are, that's your point of coolant loss. 47,4900 & 8100 series all had a weak heater core plus the heater flow valve is right there. Pull the knee panel and see what you have. For troubleshooting, let's just bypass it for now. As mentioned before, pressure test for an extended period of time, if you have a block heater, plug that rascal in, for one day, unplugged the other.
One last thing, you have a 466E, have you looked at your fuel water separator? Take a fuel sample off the bottom of the tank. See if you have coolant presence. It could be migrating past injector cups into the fuel system. The cups for HEUI's can fail.
Hope this helps. Good luck

RZucker said:

Umm, guys... They aren't my trucks. If the owners wont pull samples its their business. But when they bring me a truck, my method seems to be faster than mailing a sample and waiting on results... Just sayin.

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Well I was more responding to the original poster who stated "my day driver was driving my 1999 International 4700" did not mean to seem to be pointing a finger at anyone just offering a suggestion and giving my opinion on the good points of doing routine sample testing.

Very true that when a truck you may have never seen before is dropped at your door and you need to find a solution fast one has to do what they can. But still in that case I would be tempted to at least recommend pulling a sample to be sent in while also setting up to pressure test the coolant system.

Did a Google search and see that at least one outfit sells test kits you can use in your shop to test for glycol in oil, we had a kit that came through Mobil Oil many years ago at the quarry and this kit looks like it is of the same type.

https://hannainst.com/hi3859-glycol-test-kit.html

kshansen said:

Well I was more responding to the original poster who stated "my day driver was driving my 1999 International 4700" did not mean to seem to be pointing a finger at anyone just offering a suggestion and giving my opinion on the good points of doing routine sample testing.

Very true that when a truck you may have never seen before is dropped at your door and you need to find a solution fast one has to do what they can. But still in that case I would be tempted to at least recommend pulling a sample to be sent in while also setting up to pressure test the coolant system.

Did a Google search and see that at least one outfit sells test kits you can use in your shop to test for glycol in oil, we had a kit that came through Mobil Oil many years ago at the quarry and this kit looks like it is of the same type.

https://hannainst.com/hi3859-glycol-test-kit.html

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I think I may be ordering that test kit this week. Just another tool.

kshansen said:

another option is to pull an oil sample and have it tested for anti-freeze in the oil.

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I agree. That's what i do, too

You don't need a sample kit to test for water in the oil. Just go get an old cast iron frying pan and heat it up on a stove. Take you sample of oil and shake it up hard and then put a drop of that oil in the heated pan. If there is water the drop will sizzle and skitter all around the pan. No water and the oil will just spread. Probably not a good idea to fry eggs in that pan after doing this test.

John C. said:

You don't need a sample kit to test for water in the oil. Just go get an old cast iron frying pan and heat it up on a stove. Take you sample of oil and shake it up hard and then put a drop of that oil in the heated pan. If there is water the drop will sizzle and skitter all around the pan. No water and the oil will just spread. Probably not a good idea to fry eggs in that pan after doing this test.

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That will work for water but not sure if oil that has coolant in it from an engine that was run hot would act the same. Guess one would have to take some know contaminated oil and heat it enough to boil the water out then run the frying pan test.

The oil lab at the local Cat dealer runs the test all the time. I don't know what percentage of water has to be in the sample drop to make it sizzle.

Fire the girlfriend. Dump the employee. and Sell the truck.

Problem solved.

I have to believe that you may have dodged the bullet now but it will come back to haunt you later. It is all of doing business though.