Why track loaders?

JD8875 said:

My 953 is often used like a great big ctl. It can handle most dozer tasks of a similar sized dozer, it is more efficient at clearing as I can reach up and use the tree for leverage, it loads my single axle dump truck to running over in two good buckets, a tandem in about five, it can cut, fill, and grade. When the ground is slimy its steel grousers bite through and keep working. It's much the same as the skid steer/ctl differences. A ctl will do a skid steers job, but some days a skid steer just won't keep going in the same conditions. The only disadvantage my track loader has is it's allergy to concrete and asphalt.

John

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I think the concrete and asphalt is allergic to your machine though...

Have been on a number of job sites where a excavator was used for the major work but they had an older well worn track loader for finish up and back grading. Still a great deal of 953, 963 and the Deere/Liebherr equivalents being sold new and moving dirt in MO and IL on commercial sites.

I'm the only one in this area using a track loader on farm use. All others use a dozer. Just finished a two acre lake and some creek crossings this week with the 963. On lakes and brush I usually run with a buddy of mine with a dozer. The two work perfect together. The lake had some of the worse dirt I've worked. Every kind of clay you can imagine with flint rock mixed in. Wore a set of teeth out in 40 hours. Then in the bottom the rocks got huge. If the dozer hadn't had a ripper he was having a real hard time pushing. With teeth I could hog threw them.

Starting a hog confinement building this week and will use both machines on it. I can make all the corner and sidewall cuts while while he moves dirt out.

An excavator during wet weather will help extent our working season alot. Track loaders or dozers in some of the soft conditions we have around hear just don't cut it at certain times of the year. As far as a wheel loader, it would be useless in my world. Quarries are the only place you see them here.

Dozer is fine for making piles or pushing out a pond where the spoil is moved to produce the levee/dam. If you need to put material in a truck dozer is pretty well useless unless build up a ramp. Excavators are fine except they cannot push large quantity of materials into a pile can lift it but not so much push it. Loader is pretty much less than either but fills best of both worlds especially with a 4/1 or MP bucket just not as fast or as clumsy or as hard to maneuver. Track hoe excavators have their place, getting one between two buildings and doing considerable excavating can be tedious.

Was thinking one time of selling mine, just didn't use it much, then another project comes up and I'm sure glad I didn't sell it.

In my area, you'll see tons of track loaders. I have a 53C with a multi-purpose bucket and couldn't imagine having anything else. With the type of work I do (mainly brush/tree clearing) I take one machine to the job site. With an excavator, to move debris around and to pile it in a timely manner you have to have a support machine on site. Track loaders are just so versatile!

We used track loaders in heavy demolition of former use nuclear facilities. While wheel loaders are faster, a piece of rebar through a tire, say, twice a day, can really slow you down.

The one machine I own is a JD450B with 4in1 and 9300 hoe. Jack of trades, master of none.

Howard

lray114 said:

In my area, you'll see tons of track loaders. I have a 53C with a multi-purpose bucket and couldn't imagine having anything else. With the type of work I do (mainly brush/tree clearing) I take one machine to the job site. With an excavator, to move debris around and to pile it in a timely manner you have to have a support machine on site. Track loaders are just so versatile!

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Iray, here in central Missouri track loaders are everywhere also. About every job we do 1-2 are on it. I could not imagine not having mine and I agree they are the most versatile machine for any job site, whatever you need it can be done with one.

lray114 said:

In my area, you'll see tons of track loaders. I have a 53C with a multi-purpose bucket and couldn't imagine having anything else. With the type of work I do (mainly brush/tree clearing) I take one machine to the job site. With an excavator, to move debris around and to pile it in a timely manner you have to have a support machine on site. Track loaders are just so versatile!

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I've seen a few old machines with over the top loader. Only a few have been on tracks. These have made enormous sense to me. The only concern is the obvious one of dropping a stone, or the all day dust issue on the operator. Such a machine need only move its own length with no turning in each cycle. Modern track loaders I've never had the opportunity to watch. I assume they must either run long trips, or turn constantly to load. Those with Drott buckets seem much more versatile, able to bulldoze, or load. I certainly grasp the value to a landowner, as one machine takes the place of several. For contractors with a variety of machines they seem to be a compromise at best. The soil I experience in VT is different from other places.

Willie

A wheel loader is a loader, a track loader is by far a more versatile machine, especially when the going gets tough.

I find a track loader is a far more multipurpose and effective machine then a wheel loader. I have been running one for almost 4 years now and I can excavate a back alley, separate the asphalt from the dirt, work through cuts/soft spots, and then cut the subgrade to grade within 10mm. I can do a whole 1 block long alley, 14' wide, 12"-20" deep within 8 hours of operating. And that is including loading on trucks, and transport from the cut to the end of the alley to dump on the trucks.

Now I own a 973c, and in the summer on the farm I can do pretty much anything needed. Sure an excavator would be nice, but try short hauling bucket by bucket with an excavator. I cleaned corrals, cleaned creek bed, piled the dirt, let it dry for a few weeks, and then spread the dirt in low spots. I transplanted 20 foot tall trees. And can push bush like no hoe could ever do, not to mention moving the piles of bush.

A dozen and a hoe are a good combination, but that requires two machines, two operators, and more upkeep/money.

Myself being a single operator can do most jobs by myself. Sure my loader likes to drink fuel being a larger machine, and might take a bit longer then two machines working together. But my costs will still be lower then a two machine operation.

https://youtu.be/d7zxBSkZ2Hw

I'm the OP. I'll throw in a parallel: I have a customer, (I'm primarily an electrician), I own equipment, I can dig my own ditches. This customer is brilliant, but feels it necessary to prove it constantly. Recently he needed a 6' deep 15 foot square hole in heavy hard soil. He needed the spoil stockpiled 100 yards away. The bottom had to be dead level and smooth.

I charged him $770. He complained he could get it cheaper renting an excavator. I responded; "How you gonna move the dirt away" He responded; "Rent a skid loader"

He rents machinery for $300 per day, per machine. He uses his truck, and trailer to transport. The rental company is 1.5 hours away. Renting two machines and returning them requires 12 hours trucking. One at a time it'd be 9 hours on the road. A big F450 doesn't travel free.

He doesn't run the equipment he rents. He enlists employees to run it. They must neglect other work to run the equipment.

I'm only sort of good at math, but renting does not appear to me to be a bargain.

Now I explain the parallel I mentioned. I used a backhoe. I dug with one end, moved piles with the other. Trucking included, working alone, I did it in 11 hours.

Typically, one machine that can do multiple jobs is more efficient than several specialized ones.

In the world I live in I haven't yet felt compelled to own a track loader, still don't fully understand why my friend had 10, but I'm beginning to understand why a farmer might want one. Stuff I've found on the internet about Drott Skid Shovels Mostly on IH tractors, is very exciting. They are remarkably versatile!

70$ an hour on a backhoe seems light , unless its a mini of some sort. Backhoes here go from 95$ to 120$. I was told once rule of thumb is .01% of new cost is what the hourly rate should be. CTL's are getting 90$ here. I think the guy got a hell of a deal to be honest. Sometimes I will use the loader to get the bulk out then use the backhoe to put it on grade but that's if it has to be less the 1/2 inch or less.

I don't make a habit of working for others. I did eight hours work for a neighbor just across my fence. I priced it at $150 per hour for the 951-C and did his job. He was happy and so was I.

Old thread but I will chime in. A crawler loader is like a Swiss Army knife of heavy equipment. Would you rather have your toolbox with exactly the perfect tool always.... absolutely; but in the real world you can't own ever piece or have it on every job. My dad started his business with only a 955H in 1983. Did everything with it, dug basements, built building pads, tore down houses and buildings.

There is still no piece of equipment more versatile. A crawler loader will do everything your dozer will Plus carry and move material, load truck dirt, bucket gravel into a basement. It seems in my travels Crawler loaders are very regional based on history and soil type. In northern IL and Chicagoland almost every contractor has 1. Why? Clay subsoil that gets wet and sloppy where wheel loaders don't always work. My wife is from Colorado and you never hardly see one working there. They have rock, thinner soils and a lot less rain.

I find it funny when guys are like crawler loaders are out dated, or if you figure out how to use an excavator you don't need one. Almost everybody knows the value of a CTL. How about a Cat 963 which is a 40K lb CTL with 160 hp and 2.5 yard bucket.

We did a job last summer with a new house construction walkout basement on a 1.5 acre lot. Site was steep and odd shaped working around. Not easy necessarily. Clay ground. We finish graded with with our 650H dozer and had our 955L helping finish grade and bucket topsoil from the only place we could stock pile on one side of the house. Site was too steep to use a site truck to dump dirt. Would have been awfully slow bucketing dirt with an excavator or a CTL.

Yes I would prefer our 750 dozer with root take and excavator for clearing trees and fence Line work when doing AG work absolutely but if I'm working alone and only have one choice I will hands down take the 963. I watch guys with hoes and thumbs do that work alone and carry trees all over creation with their excavator and think boy a Crawler loader would be way more efficient and faster.

I second that, ilcorngrower! I have a JD 350 crawler loader that I've found almost indispensable, I had a JD 555B with a 4-in-1 that I sold prematurely. I really wanted a dozer with a 6-way, but ended up with a 955K with a 4-in-1. Just can't get away from the versatility. It's like having a dozer, loader, and excavator all in one. I can push over a tree then pick it up and carry it to the pile much faster than just pushing it there. And if you work at it, the 4-in-1 is a very good scraper. There's folks who'll claim a GP bucket is better--and a GP bucket will indeed load faster--but I'd like to see them pick up and carry an old telephone pole or cedar tree! It's the same regarding a woodworking shop--gotta have the table saw, miter saw, band saw, planer, and jointer. Yeah, you can get by without one of those, but by golly having them all makes things so much easier! (and yeah, the router and router table's a given.)

Bottom line--I'd love to have every style earth-moving toy out there, a dozer (with a 6-way), a loader, a scraper, an excavator, and a CTL. But if I have to choose just one, give me a loader with a 4-in-1 (a.k.a. Drott bucket).

The neighbors watch me use the old Allis and comment they wish they had one then as it shakes something loose they look back and say Whew Don't need that!! Old iron is usually tired but I still get a lot more done with my antique than many do with a conventional backhoe loader which has become the choice around here. I would still love to have the 16B sitting in Kingdom City, still cannot afford it anymore than could afford a newer TBL or a skid steer CTL.

Bringing up this old thread because I'm trying to decide between a track loader (like this https://www.rbauction.com/1994-JOHN...=10567448&id=ci&auction=SACRAMENTO-CA-2018211) with 4n1 and hoe attachment or a 10-12k lb excavator. I've been wanting a track loader forever but have rented a mini ex once or twice a year the last several years. I have to admit I was skeptical of the mini ex but have been impressed by how much they can do and how easy they are to operate. I use them to dig trenches, stack brush, do a little clearing on my ranch.

I realize the 555 is a much more versatile machine but I already have bigger equipment (Cat D4E, TD25, JD690E with thumb) so am looking for something I can move around my walnut orchard with to dig out and remove boulders. One of my main concerns is side hill maneuvering: my orchard and most of my property is fairly steep. The D4E does fine up and down the slopes but try and side hill and it just wants to bury the lower track, always fighting to keep the machine from heading downhill. I have an old D47U with a dozer and 22" pads that I use for cultivating and it is much better at running around the steeper areas, very stable feeling compared the the D4E. So, I'm concerned the 555, being a heavier machine than a mini ex, may also be less nimble when gravity starts pulling in the direction I do not want to go. If I was rich I would have one of each. Any thoughts or comments are appreciated.

mfowler, from what you describe, go for the excavator. I had a JD 555B loader with a hoe and 4n1 just like that G but about a decade older. It was a great machine, but I would never take it across anything resembling a semi-steep hill. Loaders are much more top-heavy than a dozer, and usually narrower, too. And with the hoe on... well, that's just asking for trouble. You can use the hoe as an outrigger of sorts, but it's a royal pain to do and I wouldn't recommend it. But that's almost a no-brainer on an excavator. Granted, I don't have much experience on excavators, and maybe they're just as bad on a slope, but I do know that if you bought that 555 you should buy a couple dozen extra pairs of pants to replace the ones you soil.... Of course, you can go straight up and down the slopes no problem, just never, ever across.

CavinJim,
Thanks for sharing your perspective, that's kind of what I was thinking. I really want that 555G, going to look at it tomorrow or Monday. But I think my immediate need is more for a mini ex. The ones I've been renting go pretty much wherever I want as long as it's not too wet to get traction. When it start getting steep I just put the boom and stick on the uphill side and keep right on going. I agreee using the hoe on the loader in the same fashion won't work as well, seems like it would make the machine way to bulky to move around if your working around trees.