Buying inspection questions

From what I understand, Cat and Deere have the better machines. I’m probably looking at 70-80s models in my 10-15k budget. There’s a 977L for sale but it may be on the larger side of what I need. I have about 20 acres of land that I’m need to prep for building a house in a few years. Have a bank by the Hwy to take down and an old pond to rework. Have it drying out now.

My questions are, what the best way to check transmissions and engine condition? Is there a stall test? I’ve never run a dozer or track machine, only farm machinery and a backhoe so I want to make sure I don’t buy junk and have astronomical repair bills.

Undercarriage: check idler wheels for nonroundness, feel for flat spots on bushings on track sections, sprockets shouldn’t be “pointed”, check roller wheels, check for master link. What else do I look at on the undercarriage?

In general, I know how to check for hydraulic leaks but how do you test the pumps, I know they aren’t cheap.

Any other checks you can think of would be greatly appreciated. I plan to run any machine I buy for a good 30-45’ to warm the oil and truly see what I’m getting into

You are asking a whole lot of questions that would require a lot more space to answer here than there is band width. I wrote a book on that which is available on Amazon if you are interested.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B073ZXGQNJ

Good Luck!

Engine: check blowby, look for coolant in oil, oil in coolant should start easy in cold weather. Beware of sellers who warm it up before showing.
Undercarriage: the idler is attached to a yoke that adjusts it forward to compensate for wear inside the rails. If it's already adjusted all the way forward, then you can bet there is much wear.

check said:

Engine: check blowby, look for coolant in oil, oil in coolant should start easy in cold weather. Beware of sellers who warm it up before showing.
Undercarriage: the idler is attached to a yoke that adjusts it forward to compensate for wear inside the rails. If it's already adjusted all the way forward, then you can bet there is much wear.

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Is there a nut or something to see how far it’s adjusted? Sorry probably a dumb question.

Therapydoc said:

Is there a nut or something to see how far it’s adjusted? Sorry probably a dumb question.

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The yoke is Y shaped and the front idler is attached to it. you will see where the yoke slides on the track frame in it's adjustment range.

If you aren't familiar with heavy equipment, talk to a dealer or independent mechanic who is and pay them to inspect the machine for you. It might cost $500 or even a $1000 but could save you from you buying a bigger money pit. If the seller has a problem with that, run away! I say bigger because EVERY track machine is a money pit. There's always something to fix whether it's a hydraulic hose in the most difficult location to get at or a gauge on the dash quits working. Another big benefit of having an experienced mechanic check the machine is that it could stop you from an impulse buy. There are good used machines and there are also people selling machines because they know there's expensive repairs needed. A 977 is extremely heavy and if the ground is the least bit soft, stay off it or you're going to need a bigger machine to pull it out. Undercarriage on any machine is going to be very expensive so it's best to do measurements and know exactly how much life is left instead of the seller telling you it's got 75% left. If you look at hydrostatic machines, then for sure you want to have it professionally inspected, oil samples, tracking, pressure checks, etc.

2nd on having a mechanic check it over if you aren't familiar with that type of machine.

If you're buying it from a backyard guy, chances are there won't be any service records or anything. Buying from a company or used equipment dealer there may be some service records or oil samples available. Just keep in mind that if they tell you its got a fresh rebuild on a major component but can't produce receipts or invoices, chances are it didn't happen.

+1 on the previous two posts.
It's obvious from your question you are not experienced with heavy equipment. The positive is that you know what you don't know which is the 1st step to enlightenment.
Pay someone to inspect the a potential purchase for you. Go with them and learn from them. Ask questions, in your position there's no such thing as a stupid one.
Remember when it comes to "recent work done and/or money spent" on the machine. If the seller can't prove it with paperwork - it didn't happen...!!

If I was buying a $10-15K 977, the only things I'd care about are adequate life on the undercarriage and if the engine and transmission function as they're supposed to. You're not going to put the hours on it to get any value out of a "new" engine, transmission, undercarriage etc. An unmolested original machine is more likely to live out a happy semi retirement than one that has had recent work done to it, IMHO.

Now if you could get Nige to look it over and he said it was worth a little more money because of the recent quality work, then that's a different story. If your brother in law that considers himself a diesel mechanic because he drives a Dodge cummins, likes it, that's your decision.

Welder Dave said:

If you aren't familiar with heavy equipment, talk to a dealer or independent mechanic who is and pay them to inspect the machine for you. It might cost $500 or even a $1000 but could save you from you buying a bigger money pit. If the seller has a problem with that, run away! I say bigger because EVERY track machine is a money pit. There's always something to fix whether it's a hydraulic hose in the most difficult location to get at or a gauge on the dash quits working. Another big benefit of having an experienced mechanic check the machine is that it could stop you from an impulse buy. There are good used machines and there are also people selling machines because they know there's expensive repairs needed. A 977 is extremely heavy and if the ground is the least bit soft, stay off it or you're going to need a bigger machine to pull it out. Undercarriage on any machine is going to be very expensive so it's best to do measurements and know exactly how much life is left instead of the seller telling you it's got 75% left. If you look at hydrostatic machines, then for sure you want to have it professionally inspected, oil samples, tracking, pressure checks, etc.

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I’d say I know just enough to get myself in trouble. I did all the work on my backhoe and checked it out when I bought it. Im familiar with tractors, so engine doesn’t concern me much. I know how to check them. Transmissions are different on dozers, undercarriage and maybe some hydraulic systems. I can’t justify paying a mechanic $1k for a machine worth 10k. I’ll roll the dice and hope not to roll double 7s with my knowledge. Hence the reason I use you old timers to attain the knowledge I need. I know there will be issues here and there but I just need about 50-60 hrs in the machine to get the work done I need then it will be resold. WHy pay someone 15-20k to do it or rent a machine multiple times for 10k when I can have fun, get schooled on these beasts and live out a childhood dream. So keep the info coming, thanks for the info on the yoke adjustment.

Any way to check the final drives other than oil fluid check?

To check track wear stick a pipe in the top front of the back sprocket and back up until the top of the track is pulled tight. Measure over 4 links. Center to center of 5 pins. Then look on line for a wear chart for your machine or talk to a Cat dealer to see how much wear is left on the rails. Only sure way to check for internal wear. Wear is measured in percent left, not percent worn so beware when someone smiles and says, look the wear is only at 20 percent.

If you are focused on one particular machine can you maybe post some photos of it..?

Therapydoc said:

I’d say I know just enough to get myself in trouble. I did all the work on my backhoe and checked it out when I bought it. Im familiar with tractors, so engine doesn’t concern me much. I know how to check them. Transmissions are different on dozers, undercarriage and maybe some hydraulic systems. I can’t justify paying a mechanic $1k for a machine worth 10k. I’ll roll the dice and hope not to roll double 7s with my knowledge. Hence the reason I use you old timers to attain the knowledge I need. I know there will be issues here and there but I just need about 50-60 hrs in the machine to get the work done I need then it will be resold. WHy pay someone 15-20k to do it or rent a machine multiple times for 10k when I can have fun, get schooled on these beasts and live out a childhood dream. So keep the info coming, thanks for the info on the yoke adjustment.

Any way to check the final drives other than oil fluid check?

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I did steering clutches and brake bands in a 931B which is a 1yd loader. I pulled them myself and reinstalled them. The brake bands relined wasn't bad but the dry steering clutches were around $3500 a side to have rebuilt! You need special tooling and a press to do them. I've owned the machine for several years but on a used machine you never know what shape components are really in. Having it inspected by someone qualified may help to determine if something may need attention ($$$) in the near future. I don't know if it would cost $1000. You might get a mechanic to do it for a couple hundred and case of beer. You could even negotiate the inspection in the price. I'd pay a little more for an inspected machine rather than taking the same amount off the asking price. 50-60 hours work in your estimate might be 25 or 30 for an experienced operator. Buying a machine for a short period and then selling it trying to recoup your money is a huge gamble. Having a machine can be nice but don't buy one because you always wanted a full size Tonka toy. They cost a lot of money and unexpected repairs can cost a lot more. Just trying to warn you machines cost a lot of money to keep running. If you don't have an extra $1000 when buying a used machine, you shouldn't buy it.

Nige said:

If you are focused on one particular machine can you maybe post some photos of it..?

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No particular machine in site currently. I’m the type that will research the market for many months before I buy so I know if I’m getting a fair deal. I keep an eye on a few websites to see what they are going for. Talked to the owners of these machines. I’m afraid the cat being 65 hp is too small to do much and would take forever however the backhoe would be very handy for trenching. The Komatsu with 4in1 bucket was a trade in then sent to this dealer so makes me wonder if it’s needing repairs and the dealership didn’t want to deal with it.

The Komatsu has a hydrostatic drive. When I worked for the dealer we didn't want anything to do with them. They might have offered $1,500 for you to keep it.

The 931B has the newer style backhoe but has no cutting edge or teeth installed on the loader bucket. I don't know how hard parts are to get for an older Komatsu but it is heavier than the 931B with backhoe by about 2 tons. Don't know how good a powershit transmission is though. LoL A good machine to look at might be a Cat 955L. Was very popular and should be lots of used parts available. 2yd. bucket and about 32,000lbs. On a used machine unless you have the complete maintenance and service schedule from new, it's still a gamble it won't need major repairs.

John C. said:

The Komatsu has a hydrostatic drive. When I worked for the dealer we didn't want anything to do with them. They might have offered $1,500 for you to keep it.

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Good to know !

The Komatsu D41-S isn't a hydrostatic drive. As far as I know the only Komatsu hydrostatic drive loader was the D66S/D66S-1.

Thoughts on an 855E with backhoe ? He claims 2200 hours and 90 percent undercarriage but I’m doubting that. How reliable were these machines ? Anything in particular to look at with them?

A lot more than 2200 hours judging by the scalloped edge on the loader bucket that is also missing teeth and adaptors. If someone can't be bothered to maintain the bucket teeth so the bucket doesn't wear away needlessly, what else is lacking as far as maintenance??? There's not really an excuse for it especially when they are bolt on adaptors.