Traction lock wont disengage??

I have a 753F series Bobcat skid loader. Was using it and parked it. Started it back up...Connected the bucket and then it would not move. Its acting just like it does if you forget to take the parking break off. I noticed it was doing that earlier in the week. Id shut it off restart it and all was fine. It does not have the boss control panel. If I start it I can hear the pop noise. Then a few moments later it pops again. if I start it up and hit the traction lock button and work the foot controls I can get them to work. But they will stop working after a few moments as well. On the control panel there's a traction lock override but its just a symbol of the seat bar in the up position (I'm not sure what that does?). I raised the cage and unplugged where the foot brake plugs in. I plugged a paper clip in to bypass the foot brake and that didn't work. I checked all the fuses and there good. There's talk of checking the relays but I have no clue at this point where they are? Just behind the seat there's green lights. The traction lock is blinking..3 fast blinks. After a while there's another one labeled valve I think It starts blinking 3 times as well. Any thoughts on what's going on? Its blocking my driveway and I cant move it??

Thanks

Very common problem......My best guess is the ground from the brake solenoid and the BICS coil on the valve is bad. Both solenoid grounds are tied together in the mainframe harness around the area of the brake solenoid.
I'd run a new ground wire from the splice all the way back to the battery. Solves the problem most of the time.
Also check all the ground connections at the battery while you are there

Well I installed the new traction lock solenoid. Rats! That didn't work...Still locked up. When I had the solenoid block removed of course it will then drive. And the lift arms work for a bit then they lock up as well. HHMM?? Its flashing 3 times on the traction lock. Should I take the parking brake assembly out and inspect all that? You say a ground problem? So should I tap into the black wire on the traction lock solenoid and run it straight to the battery?
Oh its an F series 1999 bobcat 753. What doe bics stand for and where is the bics coil?

BICS = Bobcat Integrated Control System.

3 flashes on traction lock LED is traction lock hold coil circuit short to ground. Not likely the new traction lock coil is shorted out, but not impossible. Can also be a faulty BICS controller or the wire that goes from the controller to the traction lock hold coil is shorted to ground somewhere along the path, most likely suspect.

hold coil short to ground.....
i'm still betting it's a bad ground since both the traction lock and bics lights are flashing

Hold coil? bics controller? Are these parts? Iv learned what the traction lock solenoid is and where it is. Iv replaced it. But these other two items your talking about I have no idea where and what they are or where they are located. I'm a pretty good wrench but i'm not to good with the terminology of my skid loader. I just got it six months ago and this is the first issue iv ran in to with it. I know its a simple fix but locating it is the hard part. I pulled out the entire brake pedal assembly. Unbolting it from the floor to disconnecting it at the plug under the cab. Im wondering if the switch at the parking brake pedal is faulty? Is that one of the things your describing?

BICS is not a component, it's a system of components and electronics that are all a part of the Bobcat Integrated Control System (BICS). The BICS controller, the traction lock solenoid, and the BICS hydraulic lock valve on the main hydraulic control valve are all part of the BICS "system".

The foot pedal parking brake switch won't be your problem, that circuit isn't directly connected to the traction lock solenoid, it's simply two wires, one comes from the BICS controller and the other goes back to the BICS controller with a switch in the middle of the two, it's simply sending a signal to the BICS controller to turn the traction lock solenoid on/off.

The traction lock solenoid has two different coil windings inside of it, pull coil and hold coil. The pull coil has a high magnetic capacity to initiate pulling the solenoid spool in (white wire at solenoid), this winding is powered up by the brake relay which gets it's signal from the BICS controller, it only stays powered up for a few seconds, long enough to "pull" the solenoid spool. The other winding inside the traction lock solenoid is the hold coil (red wire). It gets its signal directly from the BICS controller, that's the wire/circuit that is flashing a code on your BICS controller.

The other BICS component is the BICS hydraulic lock valve on the main control valve. It gets its signal directly from the BICS controller.

the traction lock is a 2 part coil, "pull" gets its power from the fuse and relay, "hold" is powered by the BICS the BICS is the black box with all the flashing lights on it behind your right elbow...

at the brake solenoid, mainframe harness side, pull back the convoluted tubing and find the cluster of 3 or 4 ground wires spliced together, ( usually within 6 or 8 inches of the connector. cut the splice reconnect everything AND run an additional ground wire all the way back to the battery. 99% of the time this will solve the problem.
the BICS coil is located on the control valve, kinda centered between all the tubelines and fittings.

the brake and bics have 1 thing in common, the ground wire.
early BICS sometimes would lead you off in the wrong direction trying to diagnose using the flash faults

crewchief888 said:

early BICS sometimes would lead you off in the wrong direction trying to diagnose using the flash faults

Click to expand...

True that, kinda like early OBDI on vehicles, gives you just enough information to leave you scratching your head. Thanks for jumping in about the ground wire circuit crewchief, I yield to your experience on that one.

crewchief888 said:

the traction lock is a 2 part coil, "pull" gets its power from the fuse and relay, "hold" is powered by the BICS the BICS is the black box with all the flashing lights on it behind your right elbow...

at the brake solenoid, mainframe harness side, pull back the convoluted tubing and find the cluster of 3 or 4 ground wires spliced together, ( usually within 6 or 8 inches of the connector. cut the splice reconnect everything AND run an additional ground wire all the way back to the battery. 99% of the time this will solve the problem.
the BICS coil is located on the control valve, kinda centered between all the tubelines and fittings.

the brake and bics have 1 thing in common, the ground wire.
early BICS sometimes would lead you off in the wrong direction trying to diagnose using the flash faults

Click to expand...

Now this is good info! Its all starting to make sense to me. First thing tomorrow morning ill go ahead and do this. I did test the parking brake switch. Its fine and has the proper continuity. Ill clean that up real good, get those exposed wires taped up real good and re-install it. Should I solder all those ground wires together or use the appropriate wire nut and electrical tape? My gut says this will work....Thanks for all your great advise. I really appreciate everybody hanging in there with me.

i would solder and heat shrink, or use an insulated butt connector.

wire nut and tape?

crewchief888 said:

i would solder and heat shrink, or use an insulated butt connector.

wire nut and tape?

Click to expand...

LOL Ya I suppose that's interior wiring hogie fix.. Ill heat shrink

crewchief888 said:

the traction lock is a 2 part coil, "pull" gets its power from the fuse and relay, "hold" is powered by the BICS the BICS is the black box with all the flashing lights on it behind your right elbow...

at the brake solenoid, mainframe harness side, pull back the convoluted tubing and find the cluster of 3 or 4 ground wires spliced together, ( usually within 6 or 8 inches of the connector. cut the splice reconnect everything AND run an additional ground wire all the way back to the battery. 99% of the time this will solve the problem.
the BICS coil is located on the control valve, kinda centered between all the tubelines and fittings.

the brake and bics have 1 thing in common, the ground wire.
early BICS sometimes would lead you off in the wrong direction trying to diagnose using the flash faults

Click to expand...

crewchief... I pulled back the tubing 18" or so. I can only find two black ground wires. There not spliced together. One goes to the brake solenoid the other to the bics. Maybe I'm misunderstanding? Where the new brake solenoid/traction lock solenoid plugs to the harness this is where I pulled back the tubing. Maybe I'm confusing your term mainframe harness side? Oh boy! I want to get this right

Karl Karr said:

crewchief... I pulled back the tubing 18" or so. I can only find two black ground wires. There not spliced together. One goes to the brake solenoid the other to the bics. Maybe I'm misunderstanding? Where the new brake solenoid/traction lock solenoid plugs to the harness this is where I pulled back the tubing. Maybe I'm confusing your term mainframe harness side? Oh boy! I want to get this right

Click to expand...

I did not peal back the tubing that's on the new solenoid I installed. I pealed it back on the?? Mainframe side??

Karl Karr said:

crewchief... I pulled back the tubing 18" or so. I can only find two black ground wires. There not spliced together. One goes to the brake solenoid the other to the bics. Maybe I'm misunderstanding? Where the new brake solenoid/traction lock solenoid plugs to the harness this is where I pulled back the tubing. Maybe I'm confusing your term mainframe harness side? Oh boy! I want to get this right

Click to expand...

somewhere in the mainframe harness those grounds should be spliced together. ive never seen one that wasnt. if you cant find the splice, try this, in the mainframe harness , splice in 2 new wires, one for the brake, the other for the BICS coil, and run them back to the battery.
clean your battery cables until they are bright and shiney

Karl Karr said:

I did not peal back the tubing that's on the new solenoid I installed. I pealed it back on the?? Mainframe side??

Click to expand...

Those two wires were taped together with electrical tape. But not spliced together.

crewchief888 said:

somewhere in the mainframe harness those grounds should be spliced together. ive never seen one that wasnt. if you cant find the splice, try this, in the mainframe harness , splice in 2 new wires, one for the brake, the other for the BICS coil, and run them back to the battery.
clean your battery cables until they are bright and shiney

Click to expand...

Im wondering if you could give me a call
Karl at 734-637-7680
Thank you!!

Im sure the splice you are describing exists. Im obviously opening up the wrong harness

Like crewchief stated, the easiest thing to do is not bother looking for that ground wire splice but rather just run new ground wires from parking brake solenoid and BICS hydraulic lock valve solenoid on main control valve back to the battery ground post. Fairly easy to do.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Problem solved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You guys are awesome!!!! Thanks a bunch.........Today is my birthday... This is a great present!!

OH!? Did I mention
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My s185 can't get power to brake lock solonoid, checked fuses, relay all good, what's next ? don't know can anybody help,?. Thank you.