DUAL INSTRUCTION

It works for aircraft, sitting right next to the instructor, with the same line of sight etc., why not this rider boom truck? The student on the right has a lot of crane time, mostly 120 ton in an industrial setting. He is getting a wake up call in the hoisting biz of residential truss setting, where speed is of the essence. The framers are working by the square foot, and want the crane guy gone ASAP, English is often their second language, and a crane op used to working in a more structured enviroment with seasoned professionals will not cut the mustard, he will be much too slow. No lift plans, no safety meetings beforehand, and the dumbest SOB on the job site running the tag line, for sure. It's challenging work to do safely (and quickly) obviously, so this student, though he has a lot of big crane time, is spending a couple days (so far) in the left seat, getting up to speed.

Until I noticed the hose clamp, I figured this was photoshopped ...

Speed comes with experience. The quickest way to an incident is to try and do it fast, before you can do it right.

I have one speed while hoisting. That is my (heavy on the "my") chosen safe speed. If you need me to go faster than that, you will need to find another hand. Not wanting to be difficult, however I bear the responsibility for the safety of the pick.

I agree with both comments, and yes those are hose clamps holding the chair up. It looks pretty goofy but is working well for him. He has 3 employees and is looking for a 4 th, and keeps 3 machines (all Manitex 22101S's, busy all day, every day. 995 of the work setting trusses.

He's a pilot also, like me, and got the idea from the way flying is taught, with the teacher right next to you, kinda makes sense but it sure looks funny, and i was pretty sure you all here would get a kick out it.

Looks illegal as hell! The student is hanging over nothing with no seat belt on and a chair made out of cheap tubing secured to the crane by hose clamps? The student and the operator appear to be working in the open without FOPS and neither wearing a hard hat or safety vest. The comment about english as a second language lends an air of throw together stuff by crews of imported labor being paid at less than the going rate in unsafe working conditions.

I'm sure there are better ways of training operators while also encouraging job site safety and presenting a better image to the public.

Cranes as a rule don't have seat belts, or FOPS.

John C. said:

The comment about english as a second language lends an air of throw together stuff by crews of imported labor being paid at less than the going rate in unsafe working conditions.

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Unfortunately that's the reality in the rental business, you don't get to pick and choose customers, or your crew. Not that there aren't jobs, that I may suggest they call someone else.

If that guy is hooked up with framing crews out west, and won't work with immigrant crews, he won't work. And it's kind of none of his business what the framers are getting paid. I never ask.

I have a couple immigrant crews that I set for, and most of the time only one of them knows english. If I yell at them a little, they get the idea what I need, and one of the crews is one of the best framers I work with.

I worked with a bunch the other day, that was all up in the manlifts with no harnesses (crew from alabama, not immigrants). I said my piece to them, that they really should have harnesses. But they don't work for me, and I can't make them leave the job, so I started flying steel.

As far as the ROPS/FOPS etc. Kiwi's right, cranes don't have them. That operator seat is a factory set up, all my rigs have cabs, but none of them have seat belts. I've been in only 1 crane that had a seat belt, it was a RT owned by a safety orientated company, and the head supervisor jumped me one day "why don't you have a seat belt on?" Because the crane doesn't have one.... We had a kit 2 weeks later. I never did get used to wearing it.

I won't wear a hard hat in the cab, the cab is my overhead protection. You end up looking up way too much, a hard hat slides right off the back of your head, or is rammed up on the back of the seat. It's not like a dozer or excavator where its all right in front of you.

I don't like the seat attached to the side, I wouldn't do that, but I have stood and walked the deck or stood on the outside step while walking someone through a job.

I find also that you can't "teach" speed/ smoothness. It comes with time. You can give advice and pointers on how to do things faster. But some guys get the feel better/faster than others. Some never get it.

If you really want to get worried about the picture, I'd worry more about the really short rigged outrigger. He's probably not picking over that side, but ...

Mother Deuce said:

I have one speed while hoisting. That is my (heavy on the "my") chosen safe speed. If you need me to go faster than that, you will need to find another hand. Not wanting to be difficult, however I bear the responsibility for the safety of the pick.

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I'm the same way . Love watching old " Spaghetti Western's " . As long as I am not the stunt guy in the movie .

Reminds me of a concrete job we did the grade work for .... Concrete crew showed up yelling " where's the truck at ? " .

Truck shows up with old hand operating it and concrete crew starts verbally jacking with the driver about how slow he was .

Truck driver Mike finally had enough with the talk ............ He wound the drum up & opened up the gate on them .......

Crew yells stop ! " slow down ! " LOL

While we're talking about speed and safe operating, I had some guys in a manbasket this morning- radio talk:

Manbasket: Operator, do you have any way to tell how fast the wind is blowing?

Me: Nope

Manbasket: Well how fast can the wind be blowing before you have to shut down?

Me : Operators manual says "safe and prudent"

Manbasket: How fast really is "safe and prudent"?

Me: You'll be scared long before I will

Manbasket (after a long pause): Okay, I guess just let us know.

Crane operator, my points on the photo was that this was being portrayed as a good idea. Second point is the unit is basically a boom truck with the operator in the open which in most if not all states requires PPE which would include at the vary least a hard hat. Nice catch on the outrigger.

The photo shows the kinds of things that are involved in "accidents" that get people hurt. I totally agree with you that operators learn by doing. If the guy wanted to train operators he should have them picking and setting weights in the yard to get used to the machine controls and not just sitting and watching from a bird perch.

Finally my comment on the non english speaking crew is a concern for me in they are pushed hard for less money, the jobs lose quality and people get hurt either by the pace and/or amount of work. Many in this area don't have industrial insurance. I don't like people getting hurt or short changed no matter where they are from or their legal status. I'd hate to think that someone less knowledgeable than us visiting the site might think that the photo depicts normal operating procedure.

Thanks for clearing that up John, I always like reading your posts, and that one didn't really sound like you.

The immigrant thing is a real issue, especially when it comes to the insurance etc. How does a framer, who's doing everything right with insurance, workmans comp, Safety program, ppe for all his guys, keep up/ make $ -when his competitor drives past home depot, pays the guys cash or just 1099's them?

It's nothing new, and its been going on forever. There's always guys who are willing to rush to the bottom.

On the PPE end, I jump my guys if I catch them out of the crane with no hard hat. Of course to do that, I have to wear mine all the time too, but like anything else its a habit. I grew up never wearing one, and now I feel like I'm missing something if I'm out of the seat and don't have it on.

" He tried having his trainee sit in his lap, but that made them both uncomfortable, and the other operators made fun of them!"
I thought of that yesterday while on a job, and cracked myself up. Hey this is one guy doing something he thought was a good idea, he's not trying to convince everyone else it's a good idea, and I'm certainly not, but you have to admit it's an interesting picture and concept.

Some of the best framing crews I work with, both speed and quality, are Hispanic, some with very little or no working command of the King's English. They make up for it on the job site by having common sense, and are consistantly the easiest for me to work with. Give me a non English speaking Mexican on the tag line anyday, they usually "get it."

you dont see nay whit guys on a frame crew around here and you will be hard pressed to find a guy that can communicate in English. most of the crews make pretty good money doing peace work but they wait for no one especially in track work. customs is a little different but residential is like the wild west compared to commercial.

I do both, wild west framing work, and by the book OSHA compliant commercial work, the contrast between the two keeps things interesting. When on the commercial jobs, I may spend 20 minutes or longer just filling out the lift plan and associated paperwork, I can just see me trying that on a typical house framing truss job, I'd get run out of town! "Que pasa!"