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D6c cat loss of oil pressure

DB2

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
1,008
Location
Winnipeg MB Canada
Just to say a temperature gauge won’t register correctly if it’s not immersed in fluid. As to the rest of the story I’ve seen engines severely overheated that never melted pistons. To me it would seem the timing had to be way out of adjustment for an engine to fail that drastically.
 

Steve.ahlgren85

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Jun 4, 2016
Messages
399
Location
Darwin, mn.
Just to say a temperature gauge won’t register correctly if it’s not immersed in fluid. As to the rest of the story I’ve seen engines severely overheated that never melted pistons. To me it would seem the timing had to be way out of adjustment for an engine to fail that drastically.
Yes, I would tend to agree with you. I really don't think that the cause of the engine failure has been found yet.
 

spitzair

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May 4, 2007
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1,009
Location
Squamish BC (Home), Slave Lake, AB (Work)
This is just my thoughts but it seems to me the more Steve talks to this Service Manager, the more the guy is making it obvious that they didn't do anywhere near what they should have done to make sure Steve gets a reliable and serviceable machine back, and Steve can use all of this as cannon fodder when it comes time to take them to the cleaners!
 

old-iron-habit

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Nov 22, 2012
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4,233
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Moose Lake, MN
Occupation
Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
I know that Cat in St. Cloud has some knowledgeable mechanics. I suspect that they don't like this any better than anybody else. I wonder how much of this is management telling mechanics not to do any more than was absolutely necessary. So far there doesn't seem to be anybody that works there that professes to know anything about this machine. They have seen it setting there forever and know nothing about it. I think they have been warned of "patient confidentiality" and there is a stick being held above their heads.
 

Steve.ahlgren85

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Jun 4, 2016
Messages
399
Location
Darwin, mn.
I know that Cat in St. Cloud has some knowledgeable mechanics. I suspect that they don't like this any better than anybody else. I wonder how much of this is management telling mechanics not to do any more than was absolutely necessary. So far there doesn't seem to be anybody that works there that professes to know anything about this machine. They have seen it setting there forever and know nothing about it. I think they have been warned of "patient confidentiality" and there is a stick being held above their heads.
I know that they have some very professional mechanics there but I have called in a professional mechanic from caterpillar to do an expert analysis of the engine failure cause. I just don't think that the engine should have failed ,melted pistons twice, in an hour and a half running time .They will have it done this week .
 

Hobbytime

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2016
Messages
709
Location
usa
I know that they have some very professional mechanics there but I have called in a professional mechanic from caterpillar to do an expert analysis of the engine failure cause. I just don't think that the engine should have failed ,melted pistons twice, in an hour and a half running time .They will have it done this week .
the one issue I have with that is he is a cat employee, will he give a truthful explanation or one that is favorable for the dealership...you should tell cat that you may have your own mechanic or you should pay one that you know to be there with the cat mechanic as he goes through that engine to keep him honest and have a pair of eyes working for you..
 

Welder Dave

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Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,257
Location
Canada
Obviously the service manager doesn't know who the "very professional mechanics" are or your machine would have been fixed properly. I agree with having a qualified independent mechanic checking it out or at least inspecting it along side the Cat mechanic so you have your own expert opinion. That said, I believe the dealership is still at fault. You paid them to diagnose and fix your engine and they failed to do that. Who are you supposed to go to who is more qualified than the Cat dealer?

Has your lawyer written to them yet? Send a letter from your lawyer to show them you are serious! I can just see it now... well the Cat mechanic said it was because this and that and the owner should have noticed this and it's not the dealers fault, etc., etc, etc. Then you're going to be second guessing everything you did and thinking it's somehow your own fault and the dealer should be let off the hook. Then there will be 1000 more posts where you're looking for opinions on what to do. I as well as many others have been trying to guide you in the right direction but it is getting redundant. Sh-t or get off the pot. I don't think there's much more we can tell you.
 

etd66ss

Senior Member
Joined
May 14, 2015
Messages
270
Location
Lockport NY
and now you are going on "spring break"??

I am done with this waste of bandwidth.

You know, sometimes family can be a priority...

And, my GOD this thread!

I think this CAT dealer is not alone these days when it comes to guys like us who own antique CATS and not fleets with $100,000's at our disposal for repairs. We are back burner customers who WILL be taken advantage by dealerships full of clowns who don't have the skills to work on this older equipment.

I knew Bob Ont very well, he was my personal go to guy for my D6C and 225, so much knowledge is being lost with the passing of guys like him, I'm not sure there will be enough knowledge around in ~20 years to keep these machines running. The guys at the dealerships today look upon them like antikytheran devices. No ports to plug in the computer diagnostic equipment to tell them exactly which widget needs replacing. No intuitive sleuthing to find the root cause.

These guys may as well just ask, would you like fries with your boat anchor 3306?
 
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Welder Dave

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Oct 11, 2014
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Bob/Ont was the guru on the older Cats. He helped me numerous times with my 931B and made it very easy to understand. He was always willing to share his expertise and knowledge. I hope Steve's lawyer sent a letter and Steve comes back to give us an update. He just needs to be firm in his position and put some pressure on the dealer instead of second guessing himself all the time after talking with the so-called service manager.
 

kshansen

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Mar 11, 2012
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11,129
Location
Central New York, USA
Occupation
Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
The guys at the dealerships today look upon them like antikytheran devices. No ports to plug in the computer diagnostic equipment to tell them exactly which widget needs replacing. No intuitive sleuthing to find the root cause.

The said thing is too many think that that computer with ET loaded on it WILL answer all the questions. In reality in most cases it only points you in the direction to go looking. You still should be able to know how to test things to confirm what the real problem is that is causing the malfunction.

Of course you can just replace one component at a time till the problem disappears! But could be the actual problem was just a poor connection that cleaned itself when you unplugged the old relay or sensor and plugged the new $367.95 new one in!

But it now works and the customer is happy and the dealer got his money so everyone thinks the computer solved the problem!
 

old-iron-habit

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Moose Lake, MN
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I think that good mechanics do know that the computer does only point them in the direction to look. That being said I also think that not all mechanics are good.
 

Steve.ahlgren85

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Jun 4, 2016
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399
Location
Darwin, mn.
Nothing new, I am going to meet with the product support guy on Monday to go over the results of the professional failure analysis report that is ready to be reviewed. We will see what they found !preliminary results of the engine failure was caused by an "air lock" in the engine resulting in the water temperature gauge to give an incorrect reading when in fact the engine was running much hotter than was indicted on the gauge.This causing the cylinders #1and#6 to fail prematurely on the second rebuild done by Ziegler caterpillar. We will see!!
 

Steve.ahlgren85

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Jun 4, 2016
Messages
399
Location
Darwin, mn.
They also said that the water pump is shot and was not circulating the water through the system property ,also radiator 50%plugged and needs to be cored .
 

51kw

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
239
Location
Minnesota
None of which are problems of yours. Radiator should not have made a difference until you put it to work. Air lock is their problem, they filled the system. They should have checked for proper circulation in the test run.
 

Welder Dave

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Oct 11, 2014
Messages
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Canada
Isn't it common knowledge with Cat engines (especially D8H's) that you have to make absolutely certain to bleed any air out of the cooling system when filling it. I think some engines even have bleeders to help with this. I think they are still grasping at straws and if they couldn't even make sure the cooling system was properly bled they have no business working on a lawnmower engine let alone a Cat. UNBELIEVABLE!!!! This is ABSOLUTELY their fault and they owe you a proper running engine with no costs to you. Get your lawyer on it right away. I've heard of incompetence but this takes the cake!
 

Birken Vogt

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Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,305
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
Adept Ape who works at a Cat dealer has a video on vacuum filling engine coolant, which should work for anything no matter how hard to bleed. It is apparently the industry standard now for EGR coolers and whatnot.

I agree a 50% plugged radiator is not going to overheat on a less-than-fully loaded tractor until a lot of dirt is moved in a short time. Probably never on a machine that is used for fine grading, brush, etc. I just got back from a job with a generator with NO FAN and it took it a good 15 minutes for the bottom hose to even start to get warm under medium load.
 

Wes J

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Jan 24, 2016
Messages
649
Location
Peoria, IL
I've filled a million Cat engines with coolant using a bucket and a funnel. Never had an issue. Run it until the thermostats open and you're good to go.

This expert is not inspiring confidence.
 

etd66ss

Senior Member
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May 14, 2015
Messages
270
Location
Lockport NY
Wow, from the initial findings, I don't see how Steve should be on the hook for any of this Ziegler CAT debacle, or should we call it a boondoggle?
 
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