DEF... What's the point?

IF we could all go back in time to a monster like this one below with a stationary cab that mechanics and owners cussed when working on them. And add a DEF system,
AC, full air ride suspension, power mirrors, windows and door locks, GPS and E-logs with tons of wiring and air lines to operate the ABS system with disc brakes and an
engine covered in crap all tucked inside that tiny stationary cab. Our DEF problems would seem small.

Truck Shop

What I don't understand is all the regulations they put on vehicles and construction equipment but not on boilers. I could only imagine the problems I the people making the regulations had pay to have them installed on their home furnace and deal with no heat and service calls all the time. I have to believe heating oil emissions are for worse. The one school building I maintain burns 10,000 gallons a month, how many trucks is that equal to?

I believe boilers ARE being chastised as we write. The auxiliary boilers at the power stations I worked were being mandated to other controls and changes in fuels. Those wood fired boilers for floor water supply heat are now required as new installs or replacements to have catalyst reduction systems in the flue and a different burn characteristic in the fire box unlike the old heavy smoke makers. Even the wood fired furnaces are changed and require special catalyst in the flue and as such require flue cleaning more regularly as to deposits from a cold stack. All the combustion process heat systems are being addressed. Even the old fuel oil fired furnaces are now using ULS fuel as it has been deemed by EPA which causes them to burn more to make the same heat which will drive many to LP and NG supplies/conversions.

As to the old horse above, I con only imagine the nightmare of those machines updated to the electronic and emissions heavy setups we have now.

University scientists needed money in order to keep a job so applied for grants to study a perceived problem. Well you can't keep receiving grants if you can't identify a problem. Pretty soon you have questionable statistics that say hundreds of thousands of people are dying because of diesel fuel soot and that has to be removed from the air. We don't want our kids to die from lung diseases, do we? So now we need more research on how to modify those engines which brings up another grant. The universities work with some manufacturers using more government grants and come up with all these add on systems to remove soot. So they removed the soot but you can't stop there because the grants would dry up. Now Nox is the problem. But what is the harm of Nox in the emissions? Don't know so we'll have to study it some more. Time for another government grant to study it. There were no restrictions on Nox in Europe or Japan until our university and grant system of funding "identified" it and they went along by changing the regulations in their countries. I don't think I seen any information about the harm of Nox. Like wise I haven't seen the information from where the statistics first came from concerning soot and just how it was derived that hundreds of thousands of people were dying from it.

Maybe someone could go back to those original "studies" and compare the predictions from the sixties and seventies to the actualities of today and see just how accurate they were? Maybe I'll put in for a government grant to study that.

Supposedly already done in German and they found Nothing Significant to note. The US Univ. Labs that performed 90% of the studies were UCLA, Univ of Berkeley and Stanford so BOTH coasts are supported. They are now stating biofuels are worse as to GHG emissions, and as such are pushing All Electric machines as "release 50% of standard diesel emissions" Where the F__K they come up with those numbers is anyone's guess and probably some computer program determination. But those tend to be whatever data is input determines the output.

As to carbon and deaths, they are now blaming asthma and asthmatic attacks on that and "Farm Dust" from cultivation/harvesting. Are these morons just too stupid or am I just imagining it?

It is frightening how stupid smart people can be.

Birken Vogt said:

Don't SCR engines have EGR installed still?

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Some do, some don't. We have a Tier 4 New Holland that is SCR only.

My Sis In Law is 'One of Those' people. She is so smart at 68 with a masters in education and cannot determine that money is not more than just printed as needed.
She thinks that the destitute need $1000/month tax free so they can survive EXCEPT not from her money(extra taxes), just print more so they can have some. She also has issues that I have diesel equipment and break the soil for farming, but man can she devour a steak if she did not have to pay for it!! Also had issue the livestock on our place were openly pooping, "we should be containing that so the methane would not increase warming". I had to walk away.
Last EPA twit I spoke with was complaining of the diesel smoke from our backup generators at the plant, said his throat tightened just coming into the yard. I asked him why and he said "well from those engine exhaust fumes from the plant of course", to which I noted the engines were off and had not been run in two weeks. He stuttered something and waddled off, I was chastised for berating our distinguished 'guest' by my supervisor who almost could not keep from laughing in front of him, almost.

My favorite by far-
"...the California Air Resources Board scientist who was the lead author and project coordinator of the study justifying the air board's sweeping new efforts to limit diesel emissions, is being investigated by air board officials over allegations he lied about having a Ph.D. in statistics from the University of California at Davis."
And they still went ahead and used his data for the new rules!

How 'bout that new Tesla electric truck? Your tax dollars at work. When asked what it weighs & price they refused to answer- probably weighs 66,000lbs and costs $20,000,000? Put a trailer on it with NO cargo equals OOS for "egregious weight violation". But you save weight because your wallet is lighter.

Is it an option to disable the DEF system by modifying the code in the central computer?

Tampering with ,or rendering emissions devices is a felony punishable by law. Dont that feel good? Dont know how they'd enforce it. I remember getting my license and registration suspended because i didnt test. They will figure awsu.

Yeah like the decatted Harley I own or the chip I programmed for my 7.3, go to jail felony BWHAHAHA!!!! So many cars running reprogrammed PROM in the ECU or "Race" programs cams and engine uprates and the tractors and trucks that are modded each year the feds would have trouble keeping up with newbies!

Once again, how would they enforce it? Randomly send you a threatening letter saying if you don't come in for a test, they'll impound your rig and suspend your CDL?

Crummy said:

My favorite by far-
"...the California Air Resources Board scientist who was the lead author and project coordinator of the study justifying the air board's sweeping new efforts to limit diesel emissions, is being investigated by air board officials over allegations he lied about having a Ph.D. in statistics from the University of California at Davis."
And they still went ahead and used his data for the new rules!

How 'bout that new Tesla electric truck? Your tax dollars at work. When asked what it weighs & price they refused to answer- probably weighs 66,000lbs and costs $20,000,000? Put a trailer on it with NO cargo equals OOS for "egregious weight violation". But you save weight because your wallet is lighter.

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I read somewhere that the truck tares in at 39,000 lbs. Throw a trailer on that and at US weights you might get 28,000lbs of payload on before you're overweight. Good if you're hauling **** tickets and that's about it. Plus I'm pretty sure a mega outfit like Swift would need a substation half the size of a city block to charge all those trucks at each terminal. No way a standard 220v outlet is going to charge one of those trucks to a 400 mile range in 30 minutes lol.

Get Dmiller's smart inlaw, "then why don't they make the chargers solar powered?"

ianholt150 said:

Is it an option to disable the DEF system by modifying the code in the central computer?...

Once again, how would they enforce it?

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The main way they enforce it is by not giving out the access to the code. Not that it's that tough to make a diesel engine run, they're basically all similar air compressors with similar timing requirements. The newer ones are integrated into the drivetrain so the engine has to get along with the transmission etc. JD recently won a case that they own the software, you just own the iron.

JohnC's right on the money on what's behind this. Both coasts' elites. I'm not saying that LA and the Northeast don't have pollution problems. LA has geographic issues that build up smog from it's port and highways, and the Northeast burns oil like a drunken Saudi, but listen to a Bostonian tell you how much more responsible they are because they live in a "walkable" environment and their public transportation is so great. Then they sue the midwest states to regulate power plants because THAT is what's causing their pollution.

Delmer said:

Get Dmiller's smart inlaw, "then why don't they make the chargers solar powered?"

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How about we make it a job REQUIREMENT that all EPA,etc.... employees have to use 100 percent solar,wind,green,etc... power with infrastructure paid for by themselves to get to work or they don't have a job.....

Around here in the peoples republic of Illinois, particularly chicagoland , they were performing mandatory opacity tests during safety inspections. I'm sure hooking a doodad into the OBD plug would take just a moment or 2 to see if its been prommed or altered in any way electronically. A quick look see under the hood would tell the tale as well. Now thats for on highway vehicles. As for machinery, in illinois , if you want to work on gov't funded projects, you have to have a percentage of your equipment "clean diesel " I could see the c@$%suckers from EPA assigning themselves the authority to access and test at will.

At least Trump says he's gonna reign these guys in. So far this year, they haven't mandated anything local that I'm aware of. I would really like to see a rollback , let the owner opt out . For example, if you're willing to get the delete kit and pay someone for a programming, then you should be able to get the same thing the mfrs provide to the 3rd world countries. Factory deletes, factory software that works with all your other modules and mad gains in fuel economy and horsepower and the reliability associated with $#!tcanning the EGR.

The Peej said:

I have to believe heating oil emissions are for worse. The one school building I maintain burns 10,000 gallons a month, how many trucks is that equal to?

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6 class 8 dayshift trucks would burn close to 10,000 gallons a month .

The Old Man still uses a fuel oil furnace in the home . It averages around 3 gallon a day in the winter months .
He's trying to decide whether to stay fuel oil or go with LP gas ? LP is more popular for heating in our area but still a few folks running oil furnaces .

I understand the fuel oil is more popular in the eastern states .

td25c said:

I understand the fuel oil is more popular in the eastern states .

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Yeah, to run the boiler all summer to keep the indirect water heater hot, but "they'll make up for all the rest in their Yugo..."