Autonomous Dozers

lantraxco said:

Sensors fail all the time without throwing a code, as long as it's within normal range limits, it can be anywhere in that range, so you can have up to 100% error and the computer will accept it as gospel. How about an anemometer with a bad bearing that only reads five or six mph when the wind is actually blowing forty? Redundancy can lead to redundant errors. Nothing is foolproof, the universe keeps breeding smarter fools.

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All true, but then why arent some of the hundreds of thousands of airplanes every day that fly falling out of the sky on a regular basis, the whole aircraft is run by computers and sensors, yes there is a pilot, but when the engines go out or the hydraulics for wing flaps, there isnt much they can do except grab the parachute.when your at 30,000 feet, and you just cant pull over to the side and call AAA for service..LOL..autonomous equipment will have back up systems, you say it cost..but so does a human operator, what does it cost a year for a good equipment operator? after the employer pays all the taxes, retirement, medical, base pay...as you said nothing is guaranteed to work perfect all the time...

not to beat a dead horse, but if you think autonomous machinery was bad enough.....just hold onto your hats for AI- artificial intelligence......sometimes I think we need protection from ourselves on where we go with technology..just because we can doesnt mean we should....

I came across this recently, drone style remote operating from anywhere and semi automonous loaders for mine work. Ideal in remote or dangerous conditions. For bulk earth moving or mining it looks like the future to me. Saves a lot of travel time and expense of accomodation. They say it costs the same as one guy per shift. Not quite sure how much that guy costs, but you get the idea.
http://www.hard-line.com/en/
http://www.hard-line.com/teleremote-control/
Graham

Hobbytime said:

All true, but then why arent some of the hundreds of thousands of airplanes every day that fly falling out of the sky on a regular basis, the whole aircraft is run by computers and sensors, yes there is a pilot, but when the engines go out or the hydraulics for wing flaps, there isnt much they can do except grab the parachute.when your at 30,000 feet, and you just cant pull over to the side and call AAA for service..LOL..autonomous equipment will have back up systems, you say it cost..but so does a human operator, what does it cost a year for a good equipment operator? after the employer pays all the taxes, retirement, medical, base pay...as you said nothing is guaranteed to work perfect all the time...

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Probably because they have multiple redundancy, components cost a multiple of probably 100 times versus construction equipment (which is already outrageous) and there's a huge maintenance crew constantly replacing failed items, along with flight crews checking and testing prior to every flight. Pilots kinda like it when the plane they're riding in doesn't blow up or fall out of the sky, there's not as much motivation for safety in construction, mining, or Ag when the machines have no human operator on board. I'm sure it's happening, but I am also sure it's going to be painful, and job security for people like me.

crane operator said:

The machine's are perfectly engineered, why would you need to inspect them, you're just being silly now, what could go wrong?

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They may well be perfectly engineered. But they still have cables that wear, sheaves and other parts that need lubrication, and someone has to check them for cracks. Not to mention keeping an eye on the ground under the outriggers, or crawlers, whatever you have.

Yair . . .
And these rip Cats are going to work the grain of the rock and set out their slots and what all eh? . . . or is so that in the this brave new world all the stuff we've learnt doesn't matter?

Cheers.

Buckethead said:

They may well be perfectly engineered. But they still have cables that wear, sheaves and other parts that need lubrication, and someone has to check them for cracks. Not to mention keeping an eye on the ground under the outriggers, or crawlers, whatever you have.

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I was just kidding around buckethead. I could just hear some engineer responding with that for a answer. I don't see it working

At Black Thunder Mine, Wyoming Powder River Basin, one of the worlds largest, They run autonomous and remote D-11's for mass dozing operations, mainly leveling cast shots to build dragline benches. One operator looks after three D11's at once and several operators are in the control trailer above the cast...They can let the machines work on GPS control and adjust or override any of the three units they are responsible for. They have a complete set of controls and view all operations on multiple high def monitors in front of them...and all the time sitting in a plush armchair in air conditioned comfort, no noise, no rough ride, no discomfort.
They get massive production from this set up... many other very large mines have haul trucks, dozers etc set up like this now. Go to the Cat video to see it all in action.....
ge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rej34VFoTrotmassive

Nearly all construction and mining operations are intricate enough to require an operator on each machine, but in all honesty, who wants to run a dozer for 12 hours just backing up, dropping the blade and pushing another load down the hill. Monotony will get to all of us whether its push after push, pass after pass across a field, or mile after mile down the highway. I can see the benefit in not having an op that could fall asleep at the end of a push and over the edge he goes. I thought I would love to run a dozer for a living, but after digging a few ponds, repetitive work will dull anyone's senses to the point of becoming accident prone.
I watched a video where mine haul trucks are being refueled by a robot. The driver now doesn't have to get out of the cab and results in a quicker refuel with less chance of operator injury. On a spring day, he might enjoy getting out of the cab to refill but what about when its ball freezing cold and the steps are iced over or hot enough to burn.
There will still be many jobs a robot or automation will never be able to replace (repair, machine rescue, assembly, etc.)
I don't like anything with a computer but I can definitely see their benefits. I have been pushing a customer to install a GPS auto guide on his self propelled hay cutter to maximize each pass instead of overlapping or missing crop.

Its all very simple.... PRODUCTION yds and tons moved per man hour... Thats how it always has been in mining when you think about it. It is the future not matter what. Its cheaper today to move a yard of dirt than it was in the 1800's. Lots of mining folks will tell you... the iron is the cheap part, the people, the regulations, the insurance, that's the expensive part.
Farming, same thing.. Bigger machines, automation, etc... yield per hour worked. Its the only way to stay in business now days.