LINEBORING INTEREST/QUESTIONS???

Hey guys I just had some questions about the lineboring business that I am hoping I can get some feedback on.
How does one get started in the lineboring business? I mean is everyone who is an independent (not a dealership) just make the investment of the equipment $$$ and go at it on nights and weekends until they get a name for themselves and enough clients to do it full time? Also is there anyplace u can go to get trained on how to line bore or is it just a trade you kind of got to teach yourself?
I am a mechanic for a cat dealership in central IL and I know what we charge to linebore and in my mind it seems like highway robbery in my eyes. I would think an independent guy could undercut our prices drastically ,and still make some dam good money. Also I think lineboring is something that most guys my age (25) are not wanting to get into I think the welder/machinist/mechanic are all definitely dying breeds in my generation. Just think it would be a good business venture for a young guy with a lot of determination and drive to get into.
Maybe my thinking is way off hell I don't know that's why I am on here. Any feedback positive or negitive would be greatly appreciated.

I bought my first Line Boring machine in 1988. Didn't have much idea how to use it. I did the rounds of the earthmoving shops and got some work in a civil workshop with 930 and 950 Cats. Also got into a mining shop and started working on 65 and 100 tonne digger buckets and 9L dozers. A steep learning curve but I put in the hours and the gear fitted together and the word spread.
I never went in with the idea of cutting prices. I did the job and charged what I thought it was worth. Thats a learning process in itself.
A few things that worked for me were
Turn up when you say you will.
Work in with the shop manager and do the job he wants but don't go so far as doing a shoddy job cause he wants a cheap one. If it fails next week its your fault not his.
Pre cut bores before you weld them. That was something with my work that was a selling point to the customer.
If you balls up a job which you will occasionally fix it free,no questions asked.
Buy the very best equipment. Its the cheapest way to go.

RayF thanks for the input I appreciate it. Sounds like you have been at the game for awhile. I have another question though so knowing everything you know about the line boring business if you had to do it all over again present day like you did back in 1988 would you do it? U have seen the business the ups and downs the goods and the bads. Was the work/investment worth the returns?

RayF gives great advice. I myself started out as a mobile service and added line-boring/welding after years of turning wrenches.My main source of line-boring comes from Quarries and a medium sized excavation company. I dont charge any differant than I do when turning wrenches. Might sound crazy for the cost of the tooiling but I also have about the same if not more invested in standard tools. Keep in mind if you are going to be portable you will need a good portable welder and wire feeder. Support equipment would also include hollow cylinder rams, pump air powered or ele. I have a carbon arc and a thermal lance I also carry with me to remove stuburn pins and bushings when needed. If you plan on working at the dealership and freelance on the weekends I would be carefull. Alot of companies consider that stealing there customers and could fire you for it.

CATWRENCH92 said:

RayF thanks for the input I appreciate it. Sounds like you have been at the game for awhile. I have another question though so knowing everything you know about the line boring business if you had to do it all over again present day like you did back in 1988 would you do it? U have seen the business the ups and downs the goods and the bads. Was the work/investment worth the returns?

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There are always times when you wonder if you will ever get another phone call. I got debt free as soon as I could so its easier to ride out the tough times. When the good times return you start putting in the hours. We have ended up doing well. I still have all the gear but don't do site work now. I let them bring it to me.

I am slowly getting into it. Thankfully I won't have to borrow to do it. There are several guys on here that really know their $hit. All of them will be more than helpful assuming you heed their advice and reciprocate in any way you can. I've been approached by several companies to do it as I've done other work for them which is helpful as they know the quality I strive for and I know they pay their bills! They also know it's side work so some stuff gets dropped at my shop and some I do on weekends.

Maybe we will learn what to do and not to do together lol. I have no doubt I'll muck something up before it's all said and done!

ship660 said:

RayF gives great advice. I myself started out as a mobile service and added line-boring/welding after years of turning wrenches.My main source of line-boring comes from Quarries and a medium sized excavation company. I dont charge any differant than I do when turning wrenches. Might sound crazy for the cost of the tooiling but I also have about the same if not more invested in standard tools. Keep in mind if you are going to be portable you will need a good portable welder and wire feeder. Support equipment would also include hollow cylinder rams, pump air powered or ele. I have a carbon arc and a thermal lance I also carry with me to remove stuburn pins and bushings when needed. If you plan on working at the dealership and freelance on the weekends I would be carefull. Alot of companies consider that stealing there customers and could fire you for it.

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That is my biggest issue that is concerning me right now ship660. The dealer I work for doesn't have a very high tolerance for moon lighting. I have seen one guy get fired for it but he was stealing parts and working for himself on company time so he had it coming. Just want to start small out of my shop at home and grow but tough to do when the dealership I work would find out at some point in time.

Junkyard said:

I am slowly getting into it. Thankfully I won't have to borrow to do it. There are several guys on here that really know their $hit. All of them will be more than helpful assuming you heed their advice and reciprocate in any way you can. I've been approached by several companies to do it as I've done other work for them which is helpful as they know the quality I strive for and I know they pay their bills! They also know it's side work so some stuff gets dropped at my shop and some I do on weekends.

Maybe we will learn what to do and not to do together lol. I have no doubt I'll muck something up before it's all said and done!

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Hey bud if we didn't muck some stuff up here and there we aren't working hard enough lol. I wanna do what your doing I think get slowly into it piece by piece but the dealership I work for would definitely frown upon it I think.

That's the toughest part. Thankfully I don't have that issue as I just work on company owned equipment. I was told a long time ago if you're not screwing something up now and then you're not getting anything done!

I know a lot of boring is self taught by actually doing it and reading forums, articles, etc mainly by doing it though and time and more time. Is there anywhere though u can go to actually learn some about the trade get some basics??? Other then finding someone who already does it and work under them?

CATWRENCH92 said:

Hey bud if we didn't muck some stuff up here and there we aren't working hard enough lol. I wanna do what your doing I think get slowly into it piece by piece but the dealership I work for would definitely frown upon it I think.

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You soon learn to be careful. You cut a 10 inch bore 12 thou oversize at 4 am and the job has to be finished by 6 is a good way of teaching you not to snagger it up

I think more conceptions and f&@k ups happen at those times than any other.....

CATWRENCH92 said:

I know a lot of boring is self taught by actually doing it and reading forums, articles, etc mainly by doing it though and time and more time. Is there anywhere though u can go to actually learn some about the trade get some basics??? Other then finding someone who already does it and work under them?

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Get to know and understand the basic principles of line boring. The relationship of the bores to a cutting edge. Setting up bars level and parallel to each other. Understanding interference and clearance fits. The rest is simple enough with practice.

Reading the various measuring tools and understanding the importance of the number 3 or 4 places right of the decimal point is what takes practice for me.

CATWRENCH92 said:

That is my biggest issue that is concerning me right now ship660. The dealer I work for doesn't have a very high tolerance for moon lighting. I have seen one guy get fired for it but he was stealing parts and working for himself on company time so he had it coming. Just want to start small out of my shop at home and grow but tough to do when the dealership I work would find out at some point in time.

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Cat dealers are pretty sticky when it comes to that kind of thing. I also work for a Cat dealer and they don't tolerate it either.

CATWRENCH92 said:

I know a lot of boring is self taught by actually doing it and reading forums, articles, etc mainly by doing it though and time and more time. Is there anywhere though u can go to actually learn some about the trade get some basics??? Other then finding someone who already does it and work under them?

Click to expand...

I haven't done line boring but I have bored and sleeved diesel engine blocks which has a little less room for error. You just have to get the stuff, get in there and do it, learn what you can from others but honestly its an old school trade and hard to find people. I picked up quite a bit from a retired machinist but his knowledge and advice kind of flatlined at a certain point (recommending parts houses that closed years ago or using effed up mics that had been dropped way too many times.) So I basically was on my own, like learning to retrofit an AMC vertical boring machine with more modern indexable tool inserts. Spent hours on end figuring out what I needed in the MSC catalog. AND I by no means call myself a machinist, I just learned things I needed to to get the job done, I can do SOME machine work is all.

And like Junkyard said know your decimals inches and even mm's. Know the .001" and .0001". Invest in good tools and take care of them, sounds fun!!!

Also, who knows, if you make a name for yourself maybe that CAT dealer will hire YOU to do the line boring on customers equipment. You never know, depending on your rates it could be cheaper than paying an employee. You just never know, just be sure to maintain positive relationships.

Dear colleagues,

I would like to know something about quality of KMP parts. Nobody in Armenia deals with them.

I do a bit of line boring over the pond in the uk ,i started out because i didnt want to be just doing the same thing and always enjoyed a challenge and studied and watched others then got my self a used machine from a guy retiring so as not to break the bank.
I was lucky to have a friend that runs quite few machines that needed a bit so i could pop up and do his and learn in my comfort zone with no pressure.
Ray F has helped me with a answering a few questions regarding ductile iron repairs and which wire to use and has a very good understanding and knowledge on line boring .
Like everyone else says learn by your mistakes and don't pass it on to the customer also don't rubbish anyone's work just sell your self as this is what i can do for you and have found this works well and just be confident and double check your measurements to try and cut down on any mistakes as its only a couple of thou between Sh#T and bust.
I have since purchased another machine as word of mouth has spread as i don't advertise people find me based on recommendations and its always nice to get a call saying you done a job for my friend or customer and he was happy and said you need to get him in to do yours.
To be honest it was a bit scary the first couple of times as you always get an audience where ever you go and have questions fired at you left right and center and some one will always come over and interrupt just as you are working out the final money shot cut in the bore so double check or do a test cut and check.
There are some very experienced guys on here that are always happy to share help Ray F and Tom V to name a few have look at the stuff they have done, its always nice as you may pick up tricks and tips and best of all go out and try it see if you like it and can do it there is good money to be made.
Good luck!!!

Honestly I find line boring really fascinating. I'm just not a welder, the two things seem to go HAND IN HAND, saw a guy at HOLT of California line boring the other day, and it is always a site to see.