getting my ass handed to me vt 365 aka 6.0

ok a little history the truck had a reman motor installed 2 years ago it started have a low power heavy black smoke problem the owner took it to the shop that put the motor in he installed aftermarket injectors it didnt fix the problem the shop owner took it to ih they said it need turbo and egr valve they installed parts didnt fix problem whent back to oringanal shop the said they didnt want anymore to do with it the owner took it to ih they said injectors needed replaced the owner called me and said could i put oem injectors in it found 4 on pass side where not torqued and damaged cups i installed 4 cups and 8 injectors a couple fuel lines that where zip tied togeather for clips truck would run but not well ck fuel pressure only had 18 psi installed new pump now 45 at start and runns up to 80 psi when driving new fuel filter icp is new ipr is new back pressure senser is new map sensor iat sensor is new all sensors where insalled by other shop no codes any way truck runs fine when cold as soon as it around 170 and you give it any throttle it will bog down and smoke heavy black smoke but ideals grate do cut out test when it is smoking and there is no change what am i missing besides a gal of gas and a match thanks mike

Since it's temperature dependent, I'm guessing Temp sensor malfunctioning BUT WITHIN NORMAL RANGE, messing up the fuel delivery called for by the computer. Maybe telling the computer the coolant temp or whatever is cold so it wants to be rich, dunno. Point is as long as the sensor is delivering a signal within the normal range it won't throw a code, even if it's off by a hundred degrees. Just a wild ass guess.

I think you're overlooking something. Maybe review the data values on a good runner and compare them to yours. Should be there

lantraxco said:

Since it's temperature dependent, I'm guessing Temp sensor malfunctioning BUT WITHIN NORMAL RANGE, messing up the fuel delivery called for by the computer. Maybe telling the computer the coolant temp or whatever is cold so it wants to be rich, dunno. Point is as long as the sensor is delivering a signal within the normal range it won't throw a code, even if it's off by a hundred degrees. Just a wild ass guess.

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While I have no experience of any kind with this engine what lantraxco says does sound like a possibility. I know many years back we had a Ford F-150 that was running like crap and as we were busy and also did not have any means to pull codes it was sent to the local dealer. Guy was either smart or luck or had seen it before. First thing he did was hook up to their `puter and it showed the water temperature was listed as -45ºF.

Well on rare occasions we have seen temps almost that low in NY but not too often in the middle of the summer! They slipped in a new sensor and for some reason truck ran much better!

And I would not feel too bad as you are way down the list of people to get their hands on this and you actually seem like you are trying to fix it!

I had a 6.0 give me fits. Similar symptoms. Idled great, ran great when cold. Would die hot and not restart. What are your high pressure oil readings? Ether with a gauge or a scan tool? That's how I discovered the issue. Had a cut O-ring from the HPOP to the rails. Could have something like that going. Or the IPR/ICP aren't telling the ECM what's really going on demand and delivery wise and it's over-fueling. If you can get your hands on the real deal software to monitor parameters I bet something will stick out. Sometimes there is bad data but it won't throw codes like they mentioned above.

I didn't see any mention of the FICM....has it been changed? What kind of boost are you seeing? Exhaust restriction somewhere? Compression good?

I'm sure I'm missing something else but maybe that will spur a thought.

Junkyard

Junkyard said:

I had a 6.0 give me fits. Similar symptoms. Idled great, ran great when cold. Would die hot and not restart. What are your high pressure oil readings? Ether with a gauge or a scan tool? That's how I discovered the issue. Had a cut O-ring from the HPOP to the rails. Could have something like that going. Or the IPR/ICP aren't telling the ECM what's really going on demand and delivery wise and it's over-fueling. If you can get your hands on the real deal software to monitor parameters I bet something will stick out. Sometimes there is bad data but it won't throw codes like they mentioned above.

I didn't see any mention of the FICM....has it been changed? What kind of boost are you seeing? Exhaust restriction somewhere? Compression good?

I'm sure I'm missing something else but maybe that will spur a thought.

Junkyard

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icp and ipr have been changed both are maching desired readings i pressure tested the hpop with no leak the ficm has not been changed it doesnt drop below 45 volts un hooked exhaust to make sure there is no blockage im sure im missing something but evey thing i ck is ok

mikebramel said:

I think you're overlooking something. Maybe review the data values on a good runner and compare them to yours. Should be there

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i would but i dont have any access to a good runner theres not many around here i even whent up to the ih dealer and they said they dont really work on many as there none around

kshansen said:

While I have no experience of any kind with this engine what lantraxco says does sound like a possibility. I know many years back we had a Ford F-150 that was running like crap and as we were busy and also did not have any means to pull codes it was sent to the local dealer. Guy was either smart or luck or had seen it before. First thing he did was hook up to their `puter and it showed the water temperature was listed as -45ºF.

Well on rare occasions we have seen temps almost that low in NY but not too often in the middle of the summer! They slipped in a new sensor and for some reason truck ran much better!

And I would not feel too bad as you are way down the list of people to get their hands on this and you actually seem like you are trying to fix it!

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going to be monday before i can get back at it on this truck i have some other jobs to get done he dont need the truck he said it cost him 30 grand last year he just wants it fixed so he can sell it but i will ck temp sender then

Check the intake and make sure it is not stopped with gunk that tar like stuff. I have seen them so stopped up the intake had to be replaced. Also consider an issue with the VGR , the variable copressor fins could be laying down. It is controlled by oil pressure.

Check your intake for coking, check HPOP. Sounds like a high pressure leak. I would say it's time for stand pipe, dummy plugs, stc fitting, etc. Also check FICM voltage, have seen FICM do strange things. If the intake is very nasty, you probably need to pull the turbo apart and clean it. But, my money is on HPOP issue, oil gets thinner when it's hot and and seals get softer. Also what year is it? If it is 03-04.5 could have an issue with the dual stage pump. Also, it will default the ICP sensor if there is a hard fault. Try pulling the IPR valve and see if the screen is blown out. Good possibility with the prior issues. IPR is a valve so it may think it is opening and closing but blocked with frag from popped injectors. Also check base oil pressure, may be low on base pressure not filling the reservoir under the cooler fast enough. Good chance with a used engine and the issues from before that some frag got into the geroter pump and killed base oil pump.

PJ The Kid said:

Check your intake for coking, check HPOP. Sounds like a high pressure leak. I would say it's time for stand pipe, dummy plugs, stc fitting, etc. Also check FICM voltage, have seen FICM do strange things. If the intake is very nasty, you probably need to pull the turbo apart and clean it. But, my money is on HPOP issue, oil gets thinner when it's hot and and seals get softer. Also what year is it? If it is 03-04.5 could have an issue with the dual stage pump. Also, it will default the ICP sensor if there is a hard fault. Try pulling the IPR valve and see if the screen is blown out. Good possibility with the prior issues. IPR is a valve so it may think it is opening and closing but blocked with frag from popped injectors. Also check base oil pressure, may be low on base pressure not filling the reservoir under the cooler fast enough. Good chance with a used engine and the issues from before that some frag got into the geroter pump and killed base oil pump.

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ipr is new icp is new turbo is new and egr is new did air pressure test on hpop no leaks base oil pressure is good it starts great hot or cold it an early 03 icp is getting to the desired

partsandservice said:

Check the intake and make sure it is not stopped with gunk that tar like stuff. I have seen them so stopped up the intake had to be replaced. Also consider an issue with the VGR , the variable copressor fins could be laying down. It is controlled by oil pressure.

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ill ck im up for anything right now been over this thing a hundred diffarnt ways

Just went through a similar issue this week with a 2005 EGR DT570...threw a sensor at it, IPR valve (screen was blown-in)...finally (like junkyard said) found seal failure at the HP oil manifold puck nipple to injector port...seal kit for the manifold to injectors was only about $80+/-....you probably have a different issue if it is still popping off when warm / hot. Good Luck:drinkup
Regards, Bob

My experience with these engine is only with Ford. Some of the early model 6.0 had an intake flap the gave issue. This is what it looks like if you can see it in the dark.

I have got to throw this in here... for the money this guy has spent on this motor he could have put a cummins in it & be driving it!!! I have had a coolant sensor on 2 different trucks do all sorts of weird stuff & would run great cold but as soon as it switched to closed loop when it warmed up the problems would start!!

Have you checked the FICM? You can buy brand new boards for them now.

One thing we found on a ford 7.3 was the fuel filter bowl input had a screen on it that clogged. It was a '96? so different guts all around but that truck would idle great but no power under any load. I don't know the 6.0s much but the #1 rule on troubleshooting is do the simplest stuff first.

The 03-04.5 had pump issues, they had a dual stage pump and the primary would reach the 500 psi needed to fire the injectors but the high side of the pump was failed causing concerns higher than idle. That would explain starting well. Try unplugging the ICP and running it, it should run but be low on power as the ICP will default when unplugged.

PJ The Kid said:

The 03-04.5 had pump issues, they had a dual stage pump and the primary would reach the 500 psi needed to fire the injectors but the high side of the pump was failed causing concerns higher than idle. That would explain starting well. Try unplugging the ICP and running it, it should run but be low on power as the ICP will default when unplugged.

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i will ck it but wouldnt that show with ipr pressure

It would show with IPR pressure above idle, if the secondary side is failed/failing you desired vs. actual will be off. May even be worth disconnecting ICP and plugging in a mechanical gauge that will go from say 300 to 3000 psi