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D9G or D9H - What do you recommend?

John Shipp

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
641
Location
England
Occupation
forestry contracting
Hi Nicky, they are 2 of the best looking H's I've ever seen. Did you custom spec the cabs and exhaust system, they look as good as a K like that. Better than the old cab I had on the H I ran, and the upright exhaust silencer right in front of the controls- we used ours one summer with the cab removed, but ended up putting it back on because the heat from that muffler was enough to boil your eyeballs. Anyway, good to see you keeping them in such great shape.

Cheers, John.
 

nicky 68a

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
1,159
Location
england
Jim.
Your idea about adding 2 rams on top of your ripper is that good,that Caterpillar made a 4 piston ripper!!
I know what you mean,but a just buy a dedicated 4 piston ripper of you want one,allthough a Kelly would be sound enough for your Job.
Jim,an old D8H will last you for years,just keep the radiator clean and have a good transmission pump and suction line,let it cool down before shutting down and let it warm up a while in the mornings.That's all
 

nicky 68a

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
1,159
Location
england
John,thanks for your comments.
They are made to look abit like D8K tractors.
P.s My lips would burn with the cab off!!
Jim,my father still helps me out with the D8's .
He's 71 and plenty left.
 

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nicky 68a

Senior Member
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Apr 14, 2013
Messages
1,159
Location
england
Jim.
Here's a 4 piston ripper that's going out on a job in January after abit of a tidy up over December.
 

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old-iron-habit

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
4,233
Location
Moose Lake, MN
Occupation
Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
Whoooooeeeeeee! Look at those gorgeous machines! Tracks are all tight. Bodies don't look like they've been in a mud fight - Nicky, those are gorgeous! Thank you for sharing with us. I'm jealous - in a good way.

Yes, at first blush, it does make you wonder why a company with good service records would let a machine sit idle with a bad head. I'll do a bit more investigation.

Nicky, that's a positive idea - keeping a new head for backup. No matter what I end up with - I'll sure follow that good advice.

Let me ask you a question I asked earlier. No one seemed to have the answer:

I know that when ripping, it is critical to have control of the ripper tooth angle. A D8H has a parallelogram-style ripper that only offers a fixed-ripping position. So I had a thought. Maybe a stupid thought. The upper control bars are fixed to the rear of the Cat and fixed to the top of the ripper. Why wouldn't a person take off those upper steel bars and replace them with hydraulic cylinders? All the pressure would always be a compressive force against the tractor. There would be no tension trying to pull away from the tractor. Yes, you would have a control issue but it seems that could be somewhat easily solved with a straight charge/discharge valve, a valve control lever and hoses that would adjust the tooth angle. What seems the most difficult would be finding an appropriate place to tie into the hydraulic system. Also would be an issue is that of the hydraulic pump - if it were strong enough to allow for the addition of the extra hydraulics. Maybe this is a really stupid idea but it sure seems more reasonable than buying a new Kelly Ripper.

I also read where someone is parting out a Cat and they have a 4-barrel ripper. More money.

Again, those are sweet machines. They sure look nice side by side.

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
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I would think that if you Added cylinders to the ripper you could put a 24 volt splitter valve in the ripper lines and control both functions with the same control. You would need two splitters, one for cylinder out and one for cylinder in, both regulated by the same toggle switch. Not likely that you would be adjusting both functions at the same time.
 

Passionhawk1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
John,thanks for your comments.
They are made to look abit like D8K tractors.
P.s My lips would burn with the cab off!!
Jim,my father still helps me out with the D8's .
He's 71 and plenty left.

So Nicky, who is the young man standing by the machine with a blue shirt?

Let me tell you, it is such a joy to see someone care about equipment like you do, Nicky. Those machines are falling-down gorgeous. John and I have our tongues hangin' out lappin' our keyboards. You've done such a good job with those cabs and the exhaust. You've really given me a high bar to cross. And you not only did it with one but with two!!!!!! Those are so sweet.

Yes, Nicky, if i end up with the DH, I'll be soppin' up all the information you care to throw this direction. You are the man!!!!!!!

I just don't know how anyone with an oil pressure and temp gauge right in front of their eyeballs can overheat a tractor?

So Nicky, I've got to ask. We all really want to know......do you talk much to these two ladies?

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
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nicky 68a

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
1,159
Location
england
Jim,I only ever ran 10 D8H tractors (and others),so I am still learning about the buggers.........
 

Passionhawk1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
I would think that if you Added cylinders to the ripper you could put a 24 volt splitter valve in the ripper lines and control both functions with the same control. You would need two splitters, one for cylinder out and one for cylinder in, both regulated by the same toggle switch. Not likely that you would be adjusting both functions at the same time.

Good morning Moose Lake!

Man, the US is about to get some of that good Minnesota weather! Folks 'll be leavin' Nevada for Alaska just to warm up. It's going to be a real cracker. Getting down to -7 F here in Nevada. Yup, that's cold for us desert rats.

Good idea with the 24V splitter valve. You're right. You're not going to be charging them at the same time. I can't see why it wouldn't work. The top cylinders would always have a positive compressive force against the tractor under load. You're not going to add any tension force pulling away from the machine. Should be cheaper than buying a whole system. Besides, I don't know if a 4-barrel would fit on the back of an H. Are the bolt patterns the same? Have to measure.

Now, I've seen pictures of a Kelly but I've never operated one. Can you adjust the shank or is it just a "one-size fits all" motion into the ground? Sure looks wicked.

So Old-Iron-Habit, thanks for the idea. I'll let you know what I do once I drop the hammer on the tractor I want.

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
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Passionhawk1

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Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
Ten??????????

I'm going to get off this forum before I make an even bigger fool of myself.

Your Dad and I have something in common. Both our ages start with the numeral 7. Ain't slowin' us down a bit!
 

Passionhawk1

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Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
Jim.
Here's a 4 piston ripper that's going out on a job in January after abit of a tidy up over December.

Now that's a ripper!!!!!

Boy, that black looks so nice with the yellow. I saw another Cat done like that with black sweeps all the way forward. It looked positively dangerous.

Nicky? I see that you have side mirrors on your machines. Are you able to see anything with them? I'd think the vibration from the low torque would make them vibrate.

Also, you mentioned something about "compact fuel systems" that give you machines more HP. What is that, Nicky?

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
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Passionhawk1

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Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
I'm laughing. A new friend just laid a funny line on me. I am looking at a Cat 345B L excavator and the pins on the bucket are just a bit loose. He said, "Jim, I wouldn't worry about loose pins on that big bucket. You ain't butterin' toast with it."

I'll remember that - hah!

Off to work I go. Good day, gentlemen. Thanks to all. . . . . and to all a goodnight. (Seems I've heard that line before.)

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
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nicky 68a

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
1,159
Location
england
Jim,The D8R got some fancy paint and stripes put onto it last month simply to satisfy a contract that I have.
As for the older D8's,the camera's and mirrors are,again,to appease health and safety bods.
I would never rely on a camera to replace the view out a back window.The convex or concave mirrors on the D8R are legal requirements for certain jobs.On another note,when working totally solo,I do use the reversing mirrors occasionally to save on abit of neck ache.
 

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Scrub Puller

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Mar 29, 2009
Messages
3,481
Location
Gladstone Queensland Australia
Yair . . .

About rippers.

I am sufficiently lacking in the grey matter department to actually like ripping and, to some extent made a study of the process, techniques and equipment.

Unless the O/P is chasing big yardage or trying to fracture marginal rock I believe any attempt to modify a perfectly good parallelogram into a four ram would be a waste of effort . . . those rams are not there just to adjust the angle of the tine (and keep the point sharp) properly operated those rams take a pizzeling as it is possible to use hydraulic lever force as well as tractive effort to break out stubborn rock.

Mother Caterpillar long ago determined a good average angle for best penetration in most conditions and a Cat parallelogram ripper with cat tynes and boots will work well in most applications.

Even though I have written disparaging things about them a simple hinge style ripper with non pivoting adjustable depth tines would probably work quite well scratching around in a gold mine.

With the hinge system you can get some angle for penetration and the working length can be adjusted to suit the site conditions . . . here again on most rippers optimum angle will be with ripper mainframe on the same plane as the tractor.

As an owner the hinge style is attractive as there are just two pivots and one ram.

The most important part of a ripper is the decelerator up on the floorplates

Cheers.
 

nicky 68a

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Apr 14, 2013
Messages
1,159
Location
england
Scrub says it well Jim.
A good old basic Kelly was one of the most simple,yet produductive rippers ever made.
 

JDOFMEMI

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Messages
3,074
Location
SoCal
As for the excavator questions, first, the 345B: does not burn 15 gal per hr, unless you are at near 100 percent duty cycle, which will not happen doing what you describe. I expect in your use, I would expect about 10 gal.

Second, the 345 will be able to do detail work. It is a fine machine for this type of work, with enough power for hard digging and rock, but good control. Parts and service are available, and will be for a long time.

Third, you can get most of the capacity you will need with a Cat 330, plus they are much cheaper to move and to work on. Look for one with a quick coupler, and you can pull pretty hard on a ripper than can be purchased for a reasonable price.

Fourth, steer clear of the off brand machines. While they may have ran good when new, there is little to no parts and service to keep one running into old age like there is with Cat.
I would not recommend any smaller than a 330 excavator for use in the rock, as they will struggle to get it done, and have more problems while doing it. There is a large population of 330 machines in use, so they are easier to find.

The Cat 330 matches up good with a D-8 dozer, and also down to a D-6. They are fairly economical to own and operate, and fuel burn at full load is about 9 gal/hr, with average work like you will likely do maybe 7 to 8 gal/hr.

Whatever you decide to go with, best of luck with it!
 

Passionhawk1

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Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
Jim,The D8R got some fancy paint and stripes put onto it last month simply to satisfy a contract that I have.
As for the older D8's,the camera's and mirrors are,again,to appease health and safety bods.
I would never rely on a camera to replace the view out a back window.The convex or concave mirrors on the D8R are legal requirements for certain jobs.On another note,when working totally solo,I do use the reversing mirrors occasionally to save on abit of neck ache.

I've been thinking about your Cat equipment, Nicky and the great appearance. If I were a person "hiring" work to be done, I'd take one look at that equipment of yours and I'd say to myself, "That's the guy I want working on my project. He takes care of his equipment and that means he's going to take care of me. He's got pride of ownership and that's the fella I want working on my property." I can just imagine when you pull them onto a job site. People have got to say to themselves. "Oh man, those are beautiful dozers. I've never seen dozers look like that before."

And that's what all of us should strive for regardless of our profession. We should all be so lucky to have our customers whisper under their breath, "I sure hired the right person for the job." My hat is off to you, Nicky.

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
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Passionhawk1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
Jim,On another note, when working totally solo,I do use the reversing mirrors occasionally to save on abit of neck ache.

So what I hear you saying is that a parabolic mirror gives you enough of a rear view to glance at now and then. I look, I look again, then I look again, and again and again because people get it buried way far up there with excitement and forget not to pull behind any piece of working equipment. I can never double check too many times.

Is the D8R also your tractor?

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
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Passionhawk1

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Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
Scrub says it well Jim.
A good old basic Kelly was one of the most simple,yet produductive rippers ever made.

Nicky:

Understanding that I've seen lots of pictures of a Kelly but have never used one, they "look" like a serious, no-nonsense tool. The tine looks much heavier. Putting the tine further back? It would seem that would prevent bearing down on the the last roller, the rail and the sprocket in a low-axle machine. Yes-no? In fact with the hydraulic down-thrust so far back from the machine, seems it would keep all grousers more evenly spaced under the tractor.

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
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Passionhawk1

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Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
As for the excavator questions, first, the 345B: does not burn 15 gal per hr, unless you are at near 100 percent duty cycle, which will not happen doing what you describe. I expect in your use, I would expect about 10 gal.

Second, the 345 will be able to do detail work. It is a fine machine for this type of work, with enough power for hard digging and rock, but good control. Parts and service are available, and will be for a long time.

Third, you can get most of the capacity you will need with a Cat 330, plus they are much cheaper to move and to work on. Look for one with a quick coupler, and you can pull pretty hard on a ripper than can be purchased for a reasonable price.

Fourth, steer clear of the off brand machines. While they may have ran good when new, there is little to no parts and service to keep one running into old age like there is with Cat.
I would not recommend any smaller than a 330 excavator for use in the rock, as they will struggle to get it done, and have more problems while doing it. There is a large population of 330 machines in use, so they are easier to find.

The Cat 330 matches up good with a D-8 dozer, and also down to a D-6. They are fairly economical to own and operate, and fuel burn at full load is about 9 gal/hr, with average work like you will likely do maybe 7 to 8 gal/hr.

Whatever you decide to go with, best of luck with it!

Hello Jerry:

How are you? First time I've seen you post. Sure glad you did because you've got some good advice on excavators. I must say, the 345B L seems like a very rugged machine. If you're going to be a bear - be a grizzly! Come big or stay home! When you need that kind of power - which, at some point in rock you always do, nice to have gear that can handle it. I'd always rather under-work a piece of equipment as opposed to having it run full-out max against the rails.

Best thing you said was your opinion that one can cut the fuel consumption down to 10 GPH. Really think so, Jerry? That would be such welcome news. It seems to me that a guy could back off the throttle just a bit and "let the hammer do the work," as they say as opposed to pushing a hammer or a sledge with your arm. Let the head do the work for you. Big machine like that has got to have some kinetic force going all of its own with all the weight of the boom, the stick and 62-inch steel bucket.

You may wonder why I'm so concerned about fuel consumption. Well guys, nobody is standing behind me writing out checks for doing all this. What did Mark Twain say was the definition of a mine? "It's a hole in the ground with a liar standing on top of it." I don't get paid until I dig it out of the ground and first, I've got to find it. So yeah, you bet I'm worried about fuel cost.

Have I ever shared with you how excited I am to start digging down? Couple of senior Nevada geologists have been underground and looked at the formation. They call it a "stockworks". Think of a big tree trunk coming up from the depths with limbs spread out in all directions. That tree trunk is quartz imbedded with gold. This is a mesothermal formation versus a hydrothermal one. It was formed with moderate metamorphic pressure just above the mantle at between 200-500 degrees. Mesothermal formations continue with mineralization to depth - which means, the gold goes all the way down the trunk. Mesothermal formations range between 1.5 and 5 Kilometers deep. How deep does this one go? Nobody knows. Whoooooooo . . . .

Early-day miners found the "limbs" of this stockworks at the surface and they followed some of the veins. This type of formation pinches and swells. They followed the limbs down to the pinches and then moved to another limb. This formation is just over a mile long and half a mile wide. Nobody has ever taken a piece of mechanized equipment after it. It was all done with ore cars on rails and air-powered knee-jack drill hammers. A Cat has never dropped a blade on the property. Neither an excavator. We already have found some pockets where the miners stopped following the quartz because it pinched down to less than an inch. I'm not a miner. I'm a film producer but let me tell you, this is one motivated film producer who's looking forward to playin' in the dirt!!!!!

Sorry. I got off the subject. Ah-hem. Where were we? So Jerry, the 345 is ideal because once I get this big sucker moved, I won't be moving it again. I looked online and there are countless examples of Cat equipment that is being scrapped. You could put together a whole dozer or excavator from parts. I looked for Kobelco, Denio, Kubota, Komatsu, and they are few and far between when it comes to finding parts. So yes, that's why it's Cat for me or nothing.

Sure appreciate your input, Jerry!

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
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Passionhawk1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Nevada
Yair . . .

About rippers.

I am sufficiently lacking in the grey matter department to actually like ripping and, to some extent made a study of the process, techniques and equipment.

Unless the O/P is chasing big yardage or trying to fracture marginal rock I believe any attempt to modify a perfectly good parallelogram into a four ram would be a waste of effort . . . those rams are not there just to adjust the angle of the tine (and keep the point sharp) properly operated those rams take a pizzeling as it is possible to use hydraulic lever force as well as tractive effort to break out stubborn rock.

Mother Caterpillar long ago determined a good average angle for best penetration in most conditions and a Cat parallelogram ripper with cat tynes and boots will work well in most applications.

Even though I have written disparaging things about them a simple hinge style ripper with non pivoting adjustable depth tines would probably work quite well scratching around in a gold mine.

With the hinge system you can get some angle for penetration and the working length can be adjusted to suit the site conditions . . . here again on most rippers optimum angle will be with ripper mainframe on the same plane as the tractor.

As an owner the hinge style is attractive as there are just two pivots and one ram.

The most important part of a ripper is the decelerator up on the floorplates

Cheers.

So if it isn't broke - don't fix it. You feel a parallelogram ripper is sufficient to do the job?

Scrub Puller? Please tell me why the decelerator is the most important part of ripping for you.

Kindest Regards,
Jim Mitchell
DLOG FINDERS
 
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