How to best dig with a backhoe?

I just bought a case 480c. I have gotten the major bugs worked out, but little ones are cropping up as I am trying to use it. Have bought seal kits and re-sealed two different cylinders already. The seals I replaced were dark and crumbly, so I expect to have to replace more. That's not my problem;

I have never used a backhoe before, so I am trying to learn myself. I have been asking around and have learned some tricks. So far;

1. The tractor will tend to slide around if you take too much of a bite. I quit trying to take such a large bite out of the ground, and a guy told me to take the front bucket and turn it down and force it into the ground to raise the front of the tractor up. And then raise the back of the tractor off the ground with the stabilizers. That really did help it not want to move so much.

2. Trying to maneuver around. Someone told me if I get in a tight spot and need to make an adjustment, I can raise the front bucket, raise the stabilizers a little bit, and then put the hoe into the ground and force the tractor to slide over. The only way I can get this to sort of work is to put the hoe to the direction I want to move, force it into the ground, and then use the foot pedals to swing the hoe the opposite way to shift the tractor to the side. Any other tricks to do this?

3. Digging. I have a bucket lever, and dipper lever and a boom lever. I am trying to figure out how to judge where to put the tractor in relation to where I want to dig. Should I put it far away and stretch the boom out as far as it will go to start a trench?
I have been using the dipper to put the bucket where I want to dig. And then I will just use the boom and the bucket to dig down. I will then move the dipper lever so it moves closer to the tractor, and then just use the bucket and the boom again to dig some more. I will drop it down with the boom, curl the bucket, lift the boom, and then use the foot pedals to swing to the side.

How do you guys do it? I find if I stick the bucket in the hole I have made, and then try to move the dipper and curl the bucket, it then tries to move the tractor a little too much.

just gotta remember you dont have an excavator. backhoes will always move over time you will get used to it

Just try different things until you find what works for you; that's what all the rest of us did. It's not exactly rocket science digging holes with a hoe.

Check out a bunch of videos on youtube

I had a JD 410 with smooth pads on the stabilizers, it was awful! Weld aggressive 2" long cuts of heavy I beam to the bottom of your stabilizer pads to get some grip on the ground.

Your dipper is the strongest component. Place the tractor so the boom, and dipper form a 100 degree angle. Dig until it's 70degree, then move the tractor.

Dig top down, taking shallow passes enough to fill the bucket. Work down.

Use teeth like the ones in your mouth. Their purpose is to stab into soil. Teeth perpendicular to dipper.

I use spoil pans. I cut 275 gallon oil tanks in half. I weld short pieces of chain to the four corners, and the bottom. Using a short chain hanging from the bucket with a big ring, I pass two short grab chains through the ring. The four hooks hook to the four short chains on the "pan". I feel a ditch is much easier to refill using these pans to place the spoils in, then swing to the edge, unhook two hooks and dump back in. Repairing lawn three feet wide is much easier than repairing a twelve foot wide mess.

Usually, a big rock, piece of concrete, or bucket of material in the front bucket will help to stabilize the machine while digging.

Willie

First of all its going to take practice. Watching videos on youtube is great advice as well. Also, don't think of each individal lever operating a function, to get good, you really want to use two and sometimes three levers at a time. Don't worry it takes time. Just remember, slow is smooth, smooth is fast. If the machine is bouncing or if the hoe is bouncing you are not being smooth enough, slow down. You also want to peel layers off, you can't just force the bucket straight down into the ground. The comment about keeping the teeth perpendicular to the dipper will help alot.

1. Good advice, the tires are bouncy the bucket and outriggers are not. Keep them planted and mostly level the machine up.
2. You are never stuck with a backhoe until nothing will move. Just think of the hoe as an arm and how it would move the rest of the machine. I never turn around and drive the machine when I am trenching. Just pick the bucket and outriggers up and push yourself to where you want to go. If you need to, you can either steer with the front tires while you are pushing( this is pretty difficult till you practice) or you can pick the rear tires up and adjust things that way.

Thanks for the replies. I have seen people use backhoes for years and it looked easy. But it's not. When a guy is scraping the bucket along level with the ground, there is a lot more going on there than I realized. I had one guy tell me to grab the dipper and the boom levers with one hand, and then pull and twist your hand to smoothly move parallel with the ground.

I see I might have remnants of some rubber pads on the stabilizers. Welding or bolting metal to the bottom may be a solution I could look into to help keep it from sliding also.

I have to be careful now that I have this thing. I have already had two different neighbors asking me about doing some work for them. I told them I don't know what I am doing, but the one neighbor's septic was backed up last Sunday and he pretty much begged me to come over and help find the lid to the tank. We found it, and I didn't break anything, which is a miracle.

It just takes time in the seat on your machine to get proficient at it.

Stay on firm, level ground until you can operate the machine. Now that winter is coming, resist the urge to "help" neighbors out. Ground conditions are turning to wet and sloppy, the last thing you want is your backhoe to become someone's yard art.

BTW - The only machine I have ever rolled over is my 420DIT...(knocks on wood)

When I first started with my backhoe, it was an old open center machine, so to move two items you had to balance the levers. I spent an hour in the driveway working on the fine control, turning a soda can upright and tipping it over, worked that in between doing stuff and after a few sessions, fine control improved a lot.

Yep practice, see what works for your specific machine, you can shift a little using the swing or crowd to push forward/back, keep your front wheels aimed the right way. bucket and outriggers down every time. If you're moving on a downhill grade, keep the teeth firmly in the trench to keep it from rolling away on you.

fast_st said:

When I first started with my backhoe, it was an old open center machine, so to move two items you had to balance the levers. I spent an hour in the driveway working on the fine control, turning a soda can upright and tipping it over, worked that in between doing stuff and after a few sessions, fine control improved a lot.

Yep practice, see what works for your specific machine, you can shift a little using the swing or crowd to push forward/back, keep your front wheels aimed the right way. bucket and outriggers down every time. If you're moving on a downhill grade, keep the teeth firmly in the trench to keep it from rolling away on you.

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A case is no John Deere. I had a '74 JD410, It was an antique, but much smoother to operate than the 580 Case. I was unable to easily adapt to the case three lever, foot swing operation. I kept banging a building when swinging simultaneous to almost any other function.

I got the 480c service manual and parts book from the minnpar site, but they do not have a operators manual. They do have the operators manual on the 580c and that looks very much like my backhoe so I downloaded it. I discovered in the manual what the drive/neutral switch is for. I will have to go try it out. No wonder the brakes were having a hard time holding the machine back. Apparently it has some sort of electric clutch in it, I have the powershift on my unit. It says if I put it in neutral position, it will go into neutral when I hit the all in one brake pedal.

Willie B said:

A case is no John Deere. I had a '74 JD410, It was an antique, but much smoother to operate than the 580 Case. I was unable to easily adapt to the case three lever, foot swing operation. I kept banging a building when swinging simultaneous to almost any other function.

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A Case is no John Deere and a John Deere is no Case. I think you're just used to JD controls and not Case controls. There's way too many Case machines sold to blame the controls. Worn out sloppy controls can come on any brand of machine. Using at least 2 controls at a time helps with smoothness and in tough digging don't extend the stick way out as it puts the most stress on everything. In hard digging keep the stick closer to the machine. The bucket has the most digging power. Sometimes you have to take little bites until you get into looser material. It takes practice to run a backhoe and don't expect to have it mastered in a couple hours.

For me to buy a new backhoe would involve a lot of hitchhiking, peanut butter and cornflake sandwiches, and dark cold evenings. Most of my playthings are used. The JD410 was pretty gently used. Paint was weathered but clean, both buckets were flawless, tires good 2000 hours. It worked great for the first 15 minutes. Then it got weak! Ultimately, it could dig, but only loose sand. Lifting a full front bucket took 120 seconds to full height! Eventually I traced the problem to a bad backhoe valve. Chain up the hoe, unhook the hydraulic lines, it was a fine loader. New Hampshire Hydraulics found the bores in the valve were too large for the spools. Three section bodies needed to be replaced. The part numbers had been superseded, the whole valve would be needed. A John Deere valve was more expensive than buying another machine. I like the design of the old JD hydraulics, but very few heavy equipment mechanics understand it. NorTrax was less than helpful! New Hampshire Hydraulics felt they could sell me an aftermarket valve, but they couldn't seem to find the time to order it. I called way too many times! 7 months later they sold me a $1500 valve that didn't fit. All the joystick mechanism had to be rebuilt to make it fit the narrower valve.

Meanwhile, I got impatient, and bought a Case. It was equipped with extend a hoe, and John Deere controls. Although it was 14 years newer, they were hard years. After thousands in pins, and bushings in the hoe, I came upon a better looking twin. It was low hours, well cared for, but had no extend a hoe, and had Case controls. I couldn't get used to the controls, or more accurately hated getting used to the controls. Closed center hydraulics in a John Deere are effortless to mix functions. Open center hydraulics when you fully open the first valve in a bank, you stop flow to all the other valves. Downstream valves wait for flow. When the first is finished its cycle, and you release the valve, the next takes off like a bullet. With foot swing, the most erratic is swing. Maybe it's me, but I can much better control the backhoe with JD controls. I swapped hoes. I have the original extend a hoe, and JD controls on the better tractor. I built a Thumb. I sold the other.

I did fix the JD. After working the bugs out, the buyer got a very nice old tractor. I loved that hoe. The loader not so much. The Case has more lift, maneuverability, and operator ease with torque converter.

fast_st said:

When I first started with my backhoe, it was an old open center machine, so to move two items you had to balance the levers. I spent an hour in the driveway working on the fine control, turning a soda can upright and tipping it over, worked that in between doing stuff and after a few sessions, fine control improved a lot.

Yep practice, see what works for your specific machine, you can shift a little using the swing or crowd to push forward/back, keep your front wheels aimed the right way. bucket and outriggers down every time. If you're moving on a downhill grade, keep the teeth firmly in the trench to keep it from rolling away on you.

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#2 son learned in a slightly different way in the driveway. My father died leaving an inexpensive safe with no one knowing the combination. There was something in it, but no way to know how important it might have been. I spoke to a locksmith who told me it isn't worth preserving it. If you can cut it open, do so. I wasn't up for using a cutting torch or abrasive saw. I figured it'd destroy papers inside.

One evening I heard a commotion, I looked out to see ten year old Zachary in the hoe. He had a 5000 LB boulder. He'd lift it, and drop it on the safe. It took several rounds of smashing it before it opened. It contained manuals for clutter such as lawn mowers long since disposed of. Oh well!

Willie

Practice makes perfect what I learned how to do with the backhoe is don't dig but take your bucket and try and hold the bucket a certain height off the ground and pull it to you while trying to maintain that height. It will help you get used to doing multiple functions at once and slow and smooth is fast

Jakebreak said:

Practice makes perfect what I learned how to do with the backhoe is don't dig but take your bucket and try and hold the bucket a certain height off the ground and pull it to you while trying to maintain that height. It will help you get used to doing multiple functions at once and slow and smooth is fast

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I will try that. I just bought the house I live in about a year ago, it's at the bottom of a mountain. It gets a lot of water in the dug out basement, it was built in 1923. I want to dig a trench in a big arch around the back of the house, and make a french drain to try and stop the water. I figured I could buy something and do it myself, and then sell the piece of equipment and come out ok. I was thinking about buying one of those harbor freight trench diggers but glad I didn't.

I have been practicing trying to dig a large stump out of the ground as my first project, but it's not going to well. Talking to people I am finding out you have to dig a really hug hole to successfully dig a large oak out of the ground. Along the way I have dug up some huge rocks out of the ground, so large that they won't fit in the front loader bucket. I can see that harbor freight thing trying to move one of those rocks.

I am glad I bought the Case, they seem to hold their value well. I am just afraid something major is going to break and then it's going to cost too much to fix. $30 a piece for cylinder seal kits is not bad, and that's been the worst thing so far. It didn't have any brakes when I got it, but a 25 cent o-ring in each wheel cylinder fixed that right up.

For a very large stump don't try and dig it out close to the stump dig deep ( maybe 4 or 5')10 or 12 ' away to break off all the roots where there not to big then you can undermine it and give a tug on some of the bigger roots. It will soon start to move & twist out much easier than pull out. This isn't the greatest explanation but will give you a start. When digging your trench to help smoother operation just run the machine 12 to 1500 rpm and don't try and take to big of bites. After a few 100 hrs. of practice you'll be far more competent.

i have videos on youtube of me running my 580c I aint a pro but I get it done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bePoP01Fn3w

Billrog said:

For a very large stump don't try and dig it out close to the stump dig deep ( maybe 4 or 5')10 or 12 ' away to break off all the roots where there not to big then you can undermine it and give a tug on some of the bigger roots. It will soon start to move & twist out much easier than pull out. This isn't the greatest explanation but will give you a start. When digging your trench to help smoother operation just run the machine 12 to 1500 rpm and don't try and take to big of bites. After a few 100 hrs. of practice you'll be far more competent.

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What he said.

I like to size up the tree. Dig far enough from center that you can easily break the roots. A Pine needs the roots severed at 2' depth, a maple, more like four. I dig wide where I can reach, then move in to break the roots closer to the stump. Usually both sides of the stump. Move the tractor, and approach from a different angle.

A much easier technique is to use the tree trunk as a lever. If you don't have enclosed ROPS, please don't do this; Approach the tree just the right distance. Reach up almost as high as you can. Set the teeth well in the bark of the tree, and extend the dipper. This adds a 16' lever to the power of your hoe. Trees up to 2' DBH go down with repeat application. Bigger may need digging first. I know, I'm compensating. I take great satisfaction in overpowering giant trees weighing 15 times what I weigh.

Willie

Willie B said:

What he said.

I like to size up the tree. Dig far enough from center that you can easily break the roots. A Pine needs the roots severed at 2' depth, a maple, more like four. I dig wide where I can reach, then move in to break the roots closer to the stump. Usually both sides of the stump. Move the tractor, and approach from a different angle.

A much easier technique is to use the tree trunk as a lever. If you don't have enclosed ROPS, please don't do this; Approach the tree just the right distance. Reach up almost as high as you can. Set the teeth well in the bark of the tree, and extend the dipper. This adds a 16' lever to the power of your hoe. Trees up to 2' DBH go down with repeat application. Bigger may need digging first. I know, I'm compensating. I take great satisfaction in overpowering giant trees weighing 15 times what I weigh.

Willie

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I always try before digging lol i posted a youtube video of one i pulled