• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Criminally bad judgement

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,038
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
I'm the guy who preaches endlessly that a job done right the first time won't have to be done again as soon. My pet gripe is half a$$ed wiring on trucks, and trailers.

The forty year old mid sized Chevy C65 got a new floor in the 14 foot flat dump last spring. I needed the truck, so I resisted #1 son's pressure to do a complete rewire of the truck. I told him he could take that project on as soon as he had time. I believe in using solid wire, and solder joints on any wiring on the road. Too often, stranded wire finds its way into even my vehicles. New stranded is fine, Old stranded is almost impossible to solder.

Yesterday I used the trailer, and the lights worked when I left home. On the return trip, trailer running lights were out. I reasoned that driving down the highway with flashers was going to attract unwanted attention. I watched for approaching vehicles behind me, and turned them on. Oncoming traffic was unaware I had a problem. ..........except for the trooper. He checked his mirror for my tail lights. Damn!!!!!

He went through the usual, did I have weapons? Am I carrying 100000lbs of cocaine. Eventually when his computer check confirmed that I am the most boring human in America, he gave me a written warning.

The failure proved to be what always fails: A bad connection in stranded wire.

stranded wire has lots of surface exposed to air to oxidize. If connections are soldered when new, all is well. Take a shortcut, and use virtually any mechanical splice, it will fail. Maybe this doesn't apply to those of you not exposed to road salt, but those of us driving in winter conditions know what I mean.

Replace truck, and trailer lighting , and wiring before it fails, and solder the connections.

Willie
 

Truck Shop

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
16,535
Location
WWW.
The only thing I can add to that is when using terminals-crimp and seal type and your repairing wiring use a junction box and seal it with silicone, but
before installing the cover spray the inside of box wires and all with open gear chain lube. I did it that way on fertilizer/ag trucks and trailers, lasted
for years. But like said above solder works best.

Truck Shop
 

hvy 1ton

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
1,942
Location
Lawrence, KS
Solid wire and solder joints will fail from vibration just as invariably as unsealed stranded wire and crimp connectors will from corrosion. Crimp connectors, adhesive heatshrink tube, and junction boxes where every you can get away with is the way to go.
 

fast_st

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
1,468
Location
Mass
Occupation
IT systems admin
Yeah, solid wire has no business in moving things. same can be said for cheap splices and connectors. https://www.delcity.net/store/Terminals/ has some good terminals and also you really want the correct compression crimp tool. I had to resplice the underside of an ambulance where 10-20 good quality heat shrink epoxy seal butt splices were crimped with a 'non insulated' crimp tool, punching two holes in the weather jacket of each one. A dremel with a brass wire brush was used to polish the oxide off of each wire to make a good solid connection again. A good weathertight splice or terminal should last as long as the wire. Adhesive lined heat shrink terminals and tubing is the only way to go if exposed to the weather.
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,038
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
I can't say I've ever seen a broken solid wire I'd attribute to vibration. Wherever possible I use NMLT conduit, fittings, and PVC weatherproof boxes. This failure was near the hinge of the dump body. The tail light has an exposed terminal block It may have once had a plastic snap over cover. I knew it was tired, been there ten years. A solid wire can be scraped shiny then re soldered.

Willie
 

Cmark

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
3,176
Location
Australia
I've probably tried most of them; crimps, soldering, tape, heat-shrink, paint-on insulation. Now, wherever practical I'll install a deutsch DT connector. Weatherproof, reusable and you have the luxury being able to replace a faulty component without having to bugger about remaking the connection.
 

Nige

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
28,973
Location
G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
Another vote for Deutsch. If they're good enough for Cat they're good enough for me.
Add a bit of Senson grease into the connector and kiss good bye to corrosion woes.....

Also if you want to make your own wiring harnesses there are Cat Part Numbers now for bulk lengths of 3, 6, & 12-wire harness available complete with the braided protection on the outside. Don't ask me what the Part Numbers are though.
 
Last edited:

redneckracin

Senior Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
574
Location
Western PA
Occupation
Civil Engineer
I bought a truck in FL that was wired with speaker wire, Talk about a dam nightmare trying to get lights rewired to work. I basically ended up ripping the entire wiring harness from the cab back and and throwing away the entire trailer brake system to put in a sealed wire harness. No more issues now! A GOOD solder gun makes life so much easier. I borrowed a high temp IIRC 120watt solder gun with the bent wire nosing and that thing will get wires hot enough to melt solder really quickly!
 

kshansen

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
11,127
Location
Central New York, USA
Occupation
Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
Another vote for Deutsch. If they're good enough for Cat they're good enough for me.
Add a bit of Senson grease into the connector and kiss good bye to corrosion woes.....

Also if you want to make your own wiring harnesses there are Cat Part Numbers now for bulk lengths of 3, 6, & 12-wire harness available complete with the braided protection on the outside. Don't ask me what the Part Numbers are though.

Also agree on the Deutsch, other than needing a correct crimping tool very easy to work with and I don't recall ever having a corrosion problem with them.

Would be interested in the Cat pre-made harness assemblies, did spend some time looking in the "Similar Parts Search" section on SIS but did not see anything there. Cat does have many things available but knowing how to locate them can be a struggle!
 

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,305
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
Until recently Deutch crimping tools were prohibitively expensive. Just translate the name.

I prefer GM "weather pack" or similar which are the same general idea but with much more available terminals and such.

You would never see me using solid wire but on a trailer that does not drive all day every day you can get away with a lot as far as vibration is concerned where if it was a vocational truck, not so much.
 

kshansen

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
11,127
Location
Central New York, USA
Occupation
Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
IIRC there was a Service Mag article announcing the availability of the bulk harnesses in the Parts system. Can't remember any more than that right now and my computer's broke so I can't go online and find it.

That's the kind of stuff I used to like back when I was on the mailing list for Service Magazines.

But about 6 years before I retired I was off that list. Every time I asked I would get some run-around. Last one was the equipment manager for the Eastern half of the US. He said he got them and if there was something in an issue he felt was of importance to one of us he would send out an email. Two problems is this guy was not a mechanic so unless there was something specific to a machine one of the quarries had it would not get flagged. Second was at that time the only people in the company who had email access were upper and middle management people. So that put two or three more people between the information and those who may have a use for it. Then even once I did get access to SIS the Service Magazines were not available to me.

As for solid wire, I don't think that would hold up very long on the off road equipment in the quarry. Maybe a shift or two but that's about it!
 

norite

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
483
Location
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
I won't use solid wire on anything that moves, vibrates or flexes which pretty much leaves it to house wiring. (NMD cable)

We have to deal with salt here a lot also. If it gets into a joint it can migrate up the wire quite a ways and cause corrosion. Best way to seal a joint I've found, solder or crimp is to get some heat shrink big enough to go over the joint, apply some RTV sealant over the joint then slide the heat shrink over that and shrink it down so it squeezes out from the ends. No problems after that, at least so far.
 

95zIV

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
795
Location
Cincinnati, OH
Occupation
RR Contractor Super.
While I am a advocate for soldering whenever it's possible, that's not always a option, but, crimp on connectors have come ALONG way in the last couple years as has heat shrink. When I do get a chance to solder anything, fastenal has some fantastic heat shrink that has a glue lining and when shrunk, the glue liquefies and seals the connection. They also have crimp on connectors that do the same thing and do make a fantastic sealed connection. Also available are the crimp on connectors that when you heat them up, there is solder in them that will melt and entrap a wire(haven't tried these, but I'm not really sure if you can get the wire hot enough to bond well with the solder before completely melting the plastic of the connector.

Solid wire in a vehicle? Is it rated for that use? Why would you want to fight that wire through all of the twists and turns on a vehicle? Why can't you clean stranded wire? All I ever did was flatten it out and use the side of a knife to scrape it clean, little bit of flux on the wire will help, get it out where you can heat it, then scrape it, then heat it again, works well. How do you get the two wires to twist around eachother without tools, that stuff is a pain in the butt in a house, I just can't imagine it in tight confined spaces.

Conduit, boxes, fluid film, terminal blocks if possible, Weather Pack connectors are great if you must have a connection that will be exposed to the elements, also if you have a connector that will be open(such as work lights for winter time that may be removed in the summer) you can take another half a connector and seal the back with RTV or something similar and plug it in to protect the inside of the connectors. Trailer plugs do well with fluid film sprayed inside them, both sides, where they connect together and where all the wires connect internally.
 
Top