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Biggest dozer to pull without having a CDL?

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Junkyard

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Jun 5, 2016
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3,621
Location
Claremore, OK
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Field Mechanic
There are many exceptions to having a CDL. Big motor coaches, toterhomes etc. The CDL gets to be a kicker when you're "for hire" which is damn hard to deny hauling equipment until you factor farm tags in then all is fair regardless of license, medical card etc. The bottom line is like any other debate, CAN it be done? Yes. Should it? That's for each of us to decide. We all know there are drivers that could derail a freight train with a smart car while texting, live to tell the story and be completely oblivious! We've all given the poster our advice based on experience and background. We can rest assured an informed decision will be made. Let's not get into a manhood measuring contest over it.

Junkyard
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,040
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
My blood pressure is up again. Spur of the moment a very good customer asked me to dig a hole for a tower foundation. He wants to pour concrete Friday, Tomorrow will be setting up the steel in the hole. I took truck, trailer, and backhoe, and dug the hole. Likely they need me to suspend the steel in the hole. I left the backhoe, might have left the trailer, but I was concerned about chains, & binders. Leaving at dusk, I discovered no running lights on the trailer. Brake lights, turns, and flashers worked. I had 9 miles to go, I reasoned it'd be best to get home and fix. That was fine until the blue lights appeared. He was psychotic like he was trained to be. Asked if I had a weapon. I never shoot police over a traffic ticket. He wanted my license along with registration. My license was in my tool box where I put my wallet earlier. He wouldn't let me get it. All the while he shined his flashlight in my eyes. Ultimately he watched me closely while looking at my inspection certificate, and plate. After firing several more questions geared toward making a 2,000,000 kilo cocaine bust, he gave me a written warning.


CDL isn't as much fun as you might imagine.

Willie
 

Ruger_556

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Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
66
Location
Pacific Northwest
There is an awe inspiring amount of misinformation in this thread. If you pull that load with a 3/4 ton make sure you let me know so I can tell my family to stay off the road.
 

hvguy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
384
Location
Conroe TX
I didnt fully read through all the pages on this, however the way it was explained to me is as follows:

I have a 95 dodge 1 ton flatbed (dually, 12 valve cummins, 5 speed) that has a payload capacity of 6500? "ive hauled 10k, but this is beyond that"
And for a trailer I have a 20ft gooseneck with a 5ft dovetail (25ft of usable space) with tandem dually axles that is rated for 25,000lbs of payload.

The limit in texas for a class C (typical license for driving a car) is 26,0001 lbs. So if you as much as hook the trailer to your truck, you need a CDL lol. But as the OP said in the first post, police generally dont care as long as your being safe, especially if you have farm plates.

I hauled a 29,000lb telehandler from dallas to conroe without a problem, your mileage may vary.
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cannuck

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
24
Location
Martensville SK
I didnt fully read through all the pages on this, however the way it was explained to me is as follows:

I have a 95 dodge 1 ton flatbed (dually, 12 valve cummins, 5 speed) that has a payload capacity of 6500? "ive hauled 10k, but this is beyond that"
And for a trailer I have a 20ft gooseneck with a 5ft dovetail (25ft of usable space) with tandem dually axles that is rated for 25,000lbs of payload.

The limit in texas for a class C (typical license for driving a car) is 26,0001 lbs. So if you as much as hook the trailer to your truck, you need a CDL lol. But as the OP said in the first post, police generally dont care as long as your being safe, especially if you have farm plates.

I hauled a 29,000lb telehandler from dallas to conroe without a problem, your mileage may vary.
A lot of misinformation here regarding trailers, as I understand the law in the US (I am North of 49 most of the time, but do work on your side of border).

ANY trailer or towed vehicle with a gross weight 26,001 lbs. and up must have air brakes (or believe it or not, vacuum brakes!!). Yes, there are exceptions, but not for truck-trailers meant for the highway. So, while your trailer may be capable of 25k payload, there is no way you can legally pull that anywhere in North America.

A note about trailers: electric drum brakes are just short of a poor joke. They exist because at 26,000 lbs. and down, there is a massive regulatory vacuum. You can not build a 26,001 lb. trailer that does not have ABS and meets a very specific braking performance standard. That should be a hint that what the 26k and down market provides for axles and brakes are no where near to modern standards for braking. The biggest problem of all is going to dual wheels on a 10k or 12k axle - as the brakes are normally meant to fit inside of a 16 inch wheel and are, well, let me be polite and just say they are inadequate. A 26k trailer is usually (best practice) pulled by a class 4 or 5 truck, typically with 4 x 15" disc brakes inside 19.5" wheels. The trailer behind it has four tiny drums, but weighs TWICE as much as the laden tow vehicle. Guess what is stopping the whole thing.

Listen to those who are genuinely afraid of overloaded light trucks trying to pull medium duty loads. BTW: I design and build 26k trailers, so yes, I am biased, but got that way by doing stupid things for 50 years and lucky enough to survive to learn not to make those same mistakes.
 

hvguy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
384
Location
Conroe TX
A lot of misinformation here regarding trailers, as I understand the law in the US (I am North of 49 most of the time, but do work on your side of border).

ANY trailer or towed vehicle with a gross weight 26,001 lbs. and up must have air brakes (or believe it or not, vacuum brakes!!). Yes, there are exceptions, but not for truck-trailers meant for the highway. So, while your trailer may be capable of 25k payload, there is no way you can legally pull that anywhere in North America.

A note about trailers: electric drum brakes are just short of a poor joke. They exist because at 26,000 lbs. and down, there is a massive regulatory vacuum. You can not build a 26,001 lb. trailer that does not have ABS and meets a very specific braking performance standard. That should be a hint that what the 26k and down market provides for axles and brakes are no where near to modern standards for braking. The biggest problem of all is going to dual wheels on a 10k or 12k axle - as the brakes are normally meant to fit inside of a 16 inch wheel and are, well, let me be polite and just say they are inadequate. A 26k trailer is usually (best practice) pulled by a class 4 or 5 truck, typically with 4 x 15" disc brakes inside 19.5" wheels. The trailer behind it has four tiny drums, but weighs TWICE as much as the laden tow vehicle. Guess what is stopping the whole thing.

Listen to those who are genuinely afraid of overloaded light trucks trying to pull medium duty loads. BTW: I design and build 26k trailers, so yes, I am biased, but got that way by doing stupid things for 50 years and lucky enough to survive to learn not to make those same mistakes.

The federal government doesnt control the roads in states, which is why individual states issue their own licenses; you know every states law on trailers?

I am in no way an expert, and yes those drums are a joke, ask me how I experienced boiled brakes; you dont even begin to know what scared is until you boil your only hope of stopping.

Im only talking about legality, not if its safe or not. Because when it really comes down to it; the load and vehicle are only as safe as the driver.

please follow this link and scroll down to the License classes. C is most common (had one when I was 16) https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/DriverLicense/dlClasses.htm


For those who wish to stay here; below is a copy paste.


Class A:

Authorizes an individual to drive a vehicle or combination of vehicles:

Not described under a Class B or Class C driver license
With a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds including vehicles in Class B or Class C
-----------------------------------
Class B

Authorizes an individual to drive:

Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more and any such vehicle towing a vehicle with a GVWR that does not exceed 10,000 pounds or a farm trailer with a GVWR that does not exceed 20,000 pounds
A bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more including the driver
Any vehicle included in Class C
------------------------------------------
Class C

Authorizes an individual to drive any single vehicle:

Or combination of vehicles that are not included in Class A or Class B
With a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a GVWR that does not exceed 20,000 pounds
Designed to transport 23 or less passengers including the driver; vehicles rated as 16-23 passengers including the driver require a Class C CDL unless exempt
---------------------------------------------
Class M

Authorizes an individual to drive a motorcycle or moped.
 

cannuck

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
24
Location
Martensville SK
The federal government doesnt control the roads in states, which is why individual states issue their own licenses; you know every states law on trailers
What I do know is that regardless of what state you are in, the FMVSS applies. Beyond that, individual states and provinces have a ridiculous bag of different laws for trailers under 26,000 and some that stand in conflict with FMVSS. We custom build, but are thinking of production, and the state and provincial variations are one of the massive hurdles to doing something intelligent.

I am in no way an expert, and yes those drums are a joke, ask me how I experienced boiled brakes; you dont even begin to know what scared is until you boil your only hope of stopping.

Im only talking about legality, not if its safe or not. Because when it really comes down to it; the load and vehicle are only as safe as the driver.
I have lost trailer brakes in the Rockies on a few different vehicles, and it is something no flatlander could ever imagine when it comes to consequences. It is one of the things that drives my own design and operating standards for trailers (and tow vehicles) today. In SK, a farmer can legally tow a 26k trailer of round bales, no tiedowns (!!) with a half ton pickup. Seems TX and a few others are almost as bad. A recent trend for provinces is a "heavy towing" endorsement for lower class licenses (we have 7 classes) to respond to the reality of the RV trailer industry - where 90% of what rolls down the road is illegal or just plain unsafe.

There are extremes in this real world that far exceed what even the most careful driver can not overcome with skill and experience. Big trailers with laughable brakes behind tiny trucks (with similarly limited brakes and stability) is one of them. It is easy to be "safe" when crap is not happening (thus the endless testimonials of "I have done xxxx and everything went well".
 

Montecresto

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Joined
Jul 2, 2022
Messages
76
Location
Arkansas
I would like to know if I can legally pull a case 750 M WT at 20K pounds with my 2021 Dodge 1 ton flat bed with a high output diesel engine and Aisen transmission (rated to pull 37K) on my 20’ (+5’ dove tail) tandem dually gooseneck trailer rated at 25K load capacity. Empty trailer weight is 6.5K so total weight 26.5K And this is just as an individual moving my dozer from one of my properties to another. Not commercial with a not for hire decal on my truck, and without a CDL???
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,260
Location
Canada
Rated pull is ridiculous. You're not using it in a truck pull competition. 26,500lbs. behind a 1 ton kind of is too. If you had to stop in a hurry the tail would wag the dog.
 

Montecresto

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Joined
Jul 2, 2022
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76
Location
Arkansas
Rated pull is ridiculous. You're not using it in a truck pull competition. 26,500lbs. behind a 1 ton kind of is too. If you had to stop in a hurry the tail would wag the dog.
Well, I have an F-650 dump truck, but it weighs half as much as my trailer and dozer and though it’s new the brakes are shitty hydraulic. Wish they were air brakes like my A Class… pretty sure my Dode dually would stop quicker….
 

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Montecresto

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Arkansas
There are many exceptions to having a CDL. Big motor coaches, toterhomes etc. The CDL gets to be a kicker when you're "for hire" which is damn hard to deny hauling equipment until you factor farm tags in then all is fair regardless of license, medical card etc. The bottom line is like any other debate, CAN it be done? Yes. Should it? That's for each of us to decide. We all know there are drivers that could derail a freight train with a smart car while texting, live to tell the story and be completely oblivious! We've all given the poster our advice based on experience and background. We can rest assured an informed decision will be made. Let's not get into a manhood measuring contest over it.

Junkyard
Yeah, always a lot of big egos on such forums and no shortage of people being rude. The truth is you can consult a dozen different forums on this subject on the web and get an array of answers. It’s frustrating as hell. But I have to wonder what is the value of the DOT required labels affixed to trailers and tow vehicles if they aren’t to be followed or trusted and you’re going to be rjdiculed for asking your question…‍♂️
 

MG84

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Jan 6, 2023
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646
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Virginia
Yeah, always a lot of big egos on such forums and no shortage of people being rude. The truth is you can consult a dozen different forums on this subject on the web and get an array of answers. It’s frustrating as hell. But I have to wonder what is the value of the DOT required labels affixed to trailers and tow vehicles if they aren’t to be followed or trusted and you’re going to be rjdiculed for asking your question…‍♂️
Big Egos? It’s usually the guys that come on here and think their 1-ton pickup is a semi that have the big egos. We get these questions on almost a weekly basis and the answer is always the same, get a bigger truck. In your case you state that you have a ‘new’ hyd brake F650, which is still not ideal for hauling a 20k dozer, but its a heck of a lot better option than a 1-ton pickup. FWIW, the tow ratings on these new light duty trucks are just pulled out of the truck mfg’s A$$. They have nothing to do with safety or longevity, only about selling more trucks than the competition.
 

Montecresto

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Jul 2, 2022
Messages
76
Location
Arkansas
And you make my point. So tell me, if one is stopped by a DOT inspector, how does he determine what your trucks GVWR is?
 

Montecresto

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Jul 2, 2022
Messages
76
Location
Arkansas
Rated pull is ridiculous. You're not using it in a truck pull competition. 26,500lbs. behind a 1 ton kind of is too. If you had to stop in a hurry the tail would wag the dog.
Btw, I’m up and down the 1-40 corridor monthly and see numerous 18 wheeler wrecks. When something goes wrong you don’t think that 50,000 pound trailer is wagging that 20,000 pound tractor. That’s why they are brutal wrecks, flipped upside down, jack knived, etc…half of all tow vehicles are pulling much more than they weigh. All these 3 axle 5th wheel RV’s are double the weight of their tow vehicles.
 

Montecresto

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Jul 2, 2022
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76
Location
Arkansas
As someone else said, there’s a difference between a person moving his equipment from one property where it just spent 3 years being worked to his other property where it’s going to set 4 years being worked, and a contractor who is moving his equipment from job to job every week. They deserve different answers quite logically. I’m not buying a two axle dump truck for 3 or 4 moves of my dozer over the 20 years I’ll own it…
 
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