Hard Facing pic

Canadian_digger · Feb 14, 2008

I had some spare time as it is winter here and things slow down so I decided to get my self some hard face wire and do some welding on our 160 Deere excavator bucket. Thought I would take a pic see what you guys think. My first time hard facing. The bucket probably should have had some hard facing done a while ago as the bucket it quite worn already.

steve loving · Feb 14, 2008

hard facing

buckrt looks good and it will really be worth time spent. hard facing is really differnt to run isnt it. i replaced the bottom on a 312 car hoe and i put ar400 wear strips and a new cat t1 edge. heres a few pics of it

bobcat ron · Feb 14, 2008

That is indeed a dying art of the heavy equipment world, I remember seeing (and watching) the local people getting their D-8 blades done when I was a kid. My favourite was the checker board pattern.

dayexco · Feb 14, 2008

don't know what dif it makes, but i was taught to hardwire in an "x" pattern. that way the inside of the welds fill full of dirt, and you have dirt wearing on dirt instead of on the tool.

Canadian_digger · Feb 14, 2008

dayexco That sure makes sense to weld in an X pattern I don't know if i feel like doing all the rest to make the X that is a lot more welding.

Reuben · Feb 14, 2008

dayexco said:
don't know what dif it makes, but i was taught to hardwire in an "x" pattern. that way the inside of the welds fill full of dirt, and you have dirt wearing on dirt instead of on the tool.

I cut out and saved a artical in a equipment magazine a few months back about hard facing.Patterns definatly does matter.Cant remember exactly what the artical said but do remember some of it,paraller pattern for rock so the rock ride up on the welds,checker/square,for soil as the soil will pack in the squares so it will protect the bucket,cant really remember anything else.Did anybody else see the artical or have anyother imput?

637slayer · Feb 14, 2008

looks like a job well done:drinkup how many hours did it take?

Canadian_digger · Feb 14, 2008

I didn’t keep track of my time. I did a bunch of a bunch of days. If I were to guess I would say about 8 hours give or take an hour or two.

Dusty · Feb 14, 2008

looks like fun

glenhd · Feb 19, 2008

Looks good i'll get some pics of my buckets.I like the checker board pattern hold the dirt in the squares and wears dirt on dirt.But the way i look at it anything is better than nothing.I love to see buckets that are all worn out and all it take is a little hardfacing..Did you do between the shanks on the cutting edge..

glen

Canadian_digger · Feb 20, 2008

Yes I did between the shanks on the cutting edge. Just a couple of iches on the bottom and about 6 inches on the inside.

dayexco · Feb 21, 2008

here's how we do our buckets and teeth.

thejdman04 · Feb 21, 2008

nice job

surfer-joe · Feb 22, 2008

Generally speaking, putting hardface on large areas is a waste of time and costly to boot. Better to weld on some good AR strips and plates or even mild steel. Old cutting edges are excellent for this. Hardfacing your wear tips is not too good an idea either. The bead of hardface rod creates high stress cracks in the underlying base metal and the teeth then tend to break easily.

It's always better to protect high wear areas before using the GET in the dirt. Also better to protect areas between shanks and adaptors with replaceable sacrificial metal rather than hardface. Same principle as above applys to the high stress areas where adaptors are welded onto bucket edges. Hardfacing creates distinct stresses next to those adaptors and they are then at increased risk of just ripping off or breaking when they hit a tough item. They sometimes take a big chunk of the base edge with them. Not good!

This isn't to say that hardfacing is all bad, but it's a niche item these days, mostly only used in smaller areas where installing other types of protection isn't possible or feasable. Cost of rod and labor to install is just too high.

dayexco · Feb 22, 2008

several things in defense of how we do things. we very seldom see rock up here. we deal primarily w/abrasion, not impact like other parts of the nation that work daily prying/pulling/breaking ledge rock. we may find a random rock in our soil that maybe the size of a basketball. 2nd thing, our ground is frozen this time of year, have several key people we keep on year around so we don't lose them come spring, it gives them something to do, so time is not the primary concern here. i think the last roll of wire i bought was $150.00...i've seen in quarries in other part of nation where they plate up the way you've described. no doubt a better way of doing it. we've never broken a tooth or chunked out a bucket after hard surfacing. we go from 1/2 to a full season on the teeth after running a few beads of wire down them. in fact, most of our digging is done with gummer "toothless" buckets.

ror76a · Feb 22, 2008

We don't do a much hardfaceing anymore, only on areas where it is tough to plate. We use old truck leaf springs for wear plates, they are made of some good steel and wear well. Still have a couple buckets around with the teeth welded on and we build them back up with weld when they wear down. You have to be carefull with them at first, untill the weld hardens, or you can chip or break them. Once you dig with it for a day or two they work harden and are just as good as normal teeth. Like dayexco we have a lot to do in the winter so time isn't a concern, and our labor prices are not very high so it doesn't cost much more to build teeth than buy them. Even so I would rather buy teeth and spend the time welding on parts that are not easily replaced, or doing other repairs.

Years ago someone hardfaced the back bucket on our 4500 backhoe

, I think it was a little over kill, but we havent had to weld it up since.

Ray Welsh · Feb 22, 2008

ror76a said:
We don't do a much hardfaceing anymore, only on areas where it is tough to plate. We use old truck leaf springs for wear plates, they are made of some good steel and wear well. Still have a couple buckets around with the teeth welded on and we build them back up with weld when they wear down. You have to be carefull with them at first, untill the weld hardens, or you can chip or break them. Once you dig with it for a day or two they work harden and are just as good as normal teeth. Like dayexco we have a lot to do in the winter so time isn't a concern, and our labor prices are not very high so it doesn't cost much more to build teeth than buy them. Even so I would rather buy teeth and spend the time welding on parts that are not easily replaced, or doing other repairs.

Years ago someone hardfaced the back bucket on our 4500 backhoe, I think it was a little over kill, but we havent had to weld it up since.

Many of the above are right in my book. Hard facing is labour intensive and a waste of time for large areas. I have found it better to weld on waste products which trap the dirt, thus giving a dirt on dirt wear surface which replaces itself during operation. I have used old cutting edges and reinforcing-bar made for concrete, as both are cheap and easily welded on.
Of course for tips, hard facing is a must. Be sure to apply a "buttering run" of softer weld under the hard face weld to make it stick better and reduce chipping of harder parent material........C ya.......Ray

xalexjx · Feb 25, 2008

looks pretty good.

TriHonu · Feb 26, 2008

Reuben said:
I cut out and saved a artical in a equipment magazine a few months back about hard facing.Patterns definatly does matter.Cant remember exactly what the artical said but do remember some of it,paraller pattern for rock so the rock ride up on the welds,checker/square,for soil as the soil will pack in the squares so it will protect the bucket,cant really remember anything else.Did anybody else see the artical or have anyother imput?

Hobart Brothers has a good overview of Hard Surfacing Tips and Techniques. It contains the high points as described in my Arc Welding Procedures Handbook and my Handbook of Construction Equipment Maintenance. The specific filler you choose will specify how much pre-heating and weld peening is recommended.

Patterns are chosen by the type of soil you are digging.

The only point they did not touch on was hard surfacing bucket teeth. As Surfer-Joe pointed out, hard surfacing teeth may not be a good idea. If you choose to add hard surfacing to teeth only apply it to the top or the bottom of each tooth, not both. This will allow the tooth to self sharpen by abrading away only one surface. If you apply hard surfacing to both top and bottom the tooth will wear to dull point and stay there.

stepsideclyde · Sep 10, 2008

We have a pc 300 in a ledge quarry, and 6 weeks is about all we can get out of a rebuilt bucket before it has to be rebuilt. We have tried many different things, including coupons made of truck spring steel, ar plate, 45mm drill steel rods, and hardfacing (stoody 19. mackay 118). Nothing seems to last very well. We do not have a spare bucket for the machine and it takes 1 week maybe to repair. Anybody got any ideas? anybody tried the mechanically connected wear coupons like cat sells? They seem pretty expensive, wonder if they are worth it. any input or experience would be helpful...thanx

tc

Hard Facing pic

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