JCB 215 Transmission Torque Coverter Question

Hi, a couple of weeks ago I purchased a 1995 JCB 215 hoe. SN#434942. The previous owner passed away last year so no service history past along, so I'm changing all of the fluids and giving her a good going over. I'm a small time hobby farmer and this is my first backhoe. I'm not totally inept, I grew up in a truck garage and I was a factory trained Mack mechanic 40 years ago. But since then I have been a electronics tech.

I picked up a manual from E-bay and started gathering parts. The two questions of today are should the torque converter be drained when I change the transmission fluid and filter?

Second question, I know not to use dot-3 brake fluid, have some green IHM Fluid Spec 7308. Iron Gard Brake and Clutch. It is mineral based, I think it is OK but not 100% sure if I can top off the brakes with it.

Any help will be appreciated.

On a Deere there is a drain plug on the torque converter so I assume there should be one on yours.

Thank you for your reply.

I have found the plug to drain the converter, what has me confused, in the manual the transmission service instructions in the maintenance section has no mention of the converter. The manual only talks about the converter in the transmission overhaul section. It lists a different type of converter fluid. I'm thinking that the tranny and the converter don't share fluid.

But then sometimes manuals are not always right or easy to understand.

The brake fluid is green LHM Iron Gard Brake and Clutch, not IHM. I'm not allowed to edit post yet. Sorry for the mistake.

They share the same oil , make sure you clean the suction screen , held in the bottom of the trans by two bolts

I have removed and cleaned the suction screen. The fluid that came out was not the red ATF type F as JCB recommends, it is I'm guessing some type of universal tractor fluid. The screen or the fluid wasn't too dirty nor was there much metal bits. No roller bearings or big parts, that was a relief. What was bad, was there just not a lot of fluid. I measured one gallon that came out of the screen hole it should have been closer to 4.

When I went to look at the Hoe before I bought it, the engine oil looked good but there was not any tranny fluid showing on the stick. I was not sure how to check it, cold or hot, running in neutral or stopped. So we ran the unit just enough to see that everything worked as expected and made a deal. I got it home and it has set till I got a manual to help explain things.

Yesterday I dumped the fluid, cleaned the screen, changed the filter and added 2.5 gallons of ATF-F back in. Then I got on the computer and started this thread asking about the converter. I got in a hurry and went ahead and started the machine to fill the filter before I received your info about the common fluid. So I'm not too sure if there will be a benefit to drain the converter now. What do you think?

I have been trapped in doors today do to heavy rain. Haven't made any progress on the Hoe project.

Thank you for your help, Lord knows I need it.

The oil in the torque will not normally get drained only by when you flush the trans with fresh oil some converters had a drain bung some don't,
You will have some oil in the cooler lines any way if you worried just run the machine for 5 mins and drain and refill again if you want to make sure .
The oil in the brakes will be a mineral oil ONLY as brake fluid will attack the master cylinder seals and axle piston seals many people have made this mistake in the past.

I'd use it for a while, get all the kinks worked out, before changing the fluid again. Don't worry too much about the level being low, sometimes seals like to drip when they aren't exercised enough, or maybe it had a slow leak that the previous owner hadn't noticed. In any case, keep an eye on the level, and change it again after it's been running for a while, when everything is nice and warm and all the dirt is circulating in the oil, not sitting in the bottom of the pan.

That is same conclusion that I came too. I'm going to top off the transmission and see how it goes for a while. The brake fluid that I have on hand is a green dyed mineral based LMH fluid. It is for New Holland equipment. It seems to me to be the correct fluid. I wish I knew for sure.

http://www.messicks.com/part/86541699ds/case-1-qt-hydraulic-brake-oil


Thanks everyone for the help.

Happy Independence Day

Any light weight hydraulic oil is fine for the brakes, as long as its oil based. Do not use Brake Fluid, I've rebuilt countless brake setups due to that mistake.

Don't quote me but I'm pretty sure New Hollands run lightweight oil as well so should be fine, I did the brakes in a 5640 the other day and that used oil. If you're unsure put a bit on your finger and dip it in a puddle, oil will float on top, brake fluid will mix in to the water

Can't say I've ever drained a torque converter, as mentioned above drain using the suction screen. I know most books say oil capacity is around 18L, if you just drain the tranny you'll only get around 9L

If your tranny is Powershift and like most of the machines I've worked on over here; to check level - start and idle for a while, stop, let rest for 20 seconds then check oil. Most of the machines have a sticker near the filler tube somewhere

Jock, thank you for your help and the tip on identifying brake fluid.

I have made some progress with the maintenance. With help from this board and the manual I'm feeling good about servicing the transmission and yesterday between rain showers I managed to drain and clean the fuel tank, change the fuel filter, clean the sediment bowl and get the system bled and the engine to run again.

Next up is fluid change on the rear end and the hubs, (two wheel drive) then replacing the U joints on the prop shaft to the hydro pump. I think after all that she will be safe to dig a bit, blow a couple a hoses before I change the hydro fluid/filter.

I don't think that the previous owner invested in maintenance for a number of years, but this is all great fun for me.

Thanks and have a great week!

Today I started off working on the brakes. The left brake works OK, the right one goes to the floor. So I bled, and bled it. I ran a half a quart of oil through it. I have a brake bleeding kit that has a bottle and tube, so I'm reasonable sure that there is no air in the system, but still no right brake. If I pump it 5 or 6 times fast I can get a little peddle, but as soon as I let the pressure off it is gone. So I moved on to the next project, changing the oil in the rear end and hubs.

I drove around a bit to warm things up and then drained out a couple of gallons of the blackest used up oil that I have ever seen. I followed the manual rotated the wheels, drained the hubs and filled everything up with fluid for wet brakes.

The question is, could the dirty oil in the rear end be causing the brake issues? Maybe the brake plates are stuck from the dirty oil. The hoe has been setting for most of a year. Anyway that is my hope. I plan to exercise the old girl and see if the clean oil in the master cylinder or the new oil in the rear end make any difference.

Any input will be appreciated. Thanks

Brake bleeding is carried out by holding say the left pedal half way down and bleeding the right and then the same with holding right half way and bleed out left this is done so as you can bleed brakes because of there is a link pipe on the m/cylinders which traps air if the other pedal is not held.
If after that you still cant get the brakes to bleed up next thing could be warped friction and counter brake plates this will give you a spring like action where they warp they take about 3 - 4 pumps of the pedal to get brakes to work but as soon as you take your foot off the plates because they are warped they are like a dished spring and push the piston housing all the way back.
Did the rear axle oil smell burnt and black as this is normally a good sign of this pre poor maintenance.The only way is to strip out and refurb the brakes.
We would normally if on site just drop one side down at a time with a jack and tackle left and right separate unless you have adequate lifting equipment to hand .
You will need inner and outer piston seals and a set of friction plates and counter plates to rebuild this a trick to get the pistons out would be to use a compressed air to blow them out.
Make sure the piston seals the square sections ones you soak in light hyd oil first as well as the friction plates in the axle oil of choice before fitting.
Make sure the piston seals go the correct way round with the chamfer on the square section seal.
A good way to flush the axle oil to get it cleaned out is to fill it with half good hyd oil and axle oil of choice and run up for a bit and then drop it out prior to brake change.

Thanks for the information Jeff. I will try to bleed the brakes with peddles in the positions as you suggested. The oil that came out of the rear end was black as coal but didn't smell burnt. There was definitely a lack of maintenance.

I really hope that my problem is a air in the system or a master cylinder issue, because I don't think that I could handle the rebuilding the parts in the rear end. I think that I would hire a pro to do that.

Thanks again.

It looks a big job i used to do a axle set on site in 6 hrs its only nuts and bolts and a bit of grunt good luck.

Jeff, I tried the hold one peddle half way and bleed the other procedure as you suggested and I didn't see any difference. I did it both ways right and left. I plan on taking the hood off and removing the battery to get to the master cylinders to see if there is enough slack in the lines to swap then to see if the problem follows the brake or the master cylinder. When I pump the good brake there isn't any disturbance of the oil in the brake reservoir, when I pump the bad brake the oil in the reservoir moves, like I'm pumping toward it not the brake.

Anyone have a contact for ordering JCB parts online? I see on e-bay the people in the UK, their costs look good but what about the shipping? Someone in the USA? I need a 20" engine cooling fan, a sediment bowl, most likely a master cylinder or brake disk parts, a prop shaft repair kit, Parking brake pads. and I think a few more.

Thanks for the help.

The master cylinders are as you say tucked away in a hole behind the battery if you are going to change them you will need help as you need to be inside and outside of the cab at the same time.The pipes re steel that come from the master cylinder so i don't think you will be able to swap them over ,does the oil in the reservoir look black as this is a sign that the seals are worn.
If you un latch the pedals have you got same / equal free play movement before pedals move arm if you you have look upside down under dash you will see the clevis end.If you decide to swap out master cylinder i would advise to swap out both whilst in there also you know your good.
Also try put back hoe in center position pointing straight back as roading position and drive a long on some gravel or surface similar and hit the brakes hard see which brake locks up and if they come on together or not and if it pulls up straight you could repeat test if you unlock pedal and try left and right separate.
My money would be still on if you have to pump pedal 3 times to get a pedal and it stops and the when you re apply you have to pump again it will be friction and counter plate problem.