Need opinions on cat CT 660

I'm about to purchase a cat CT 660 to pull an end dump. The dealer is offering a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty to try and move one of the last new trucks. Is there any reason I shouldn't buy this truck?

I hope it's priced right. Because it's an orphan. IMO

Truck Shop

In case you missed the jargon an orphan is a machine that they don't make anymore.

mxsledder said:

I'm about to purchase a cat CT 660 to pull an end dump.

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Why???? If they were any good at all they would still be in production. Please do not fall into that "too good to pass up" deal.

mxsledder said:

Is there any reason I shouldn't buy this truck?

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It says "Caterpillar" on it. :stirthepot

If you really really want it, see if the dealer will put it into their lease program that you negotiate a no cost to you rental is provided when it breaks....

Ask folks what it was like to have a Navistar super savvy EGR (and no DEF) with their unique DPF fuel injection timed event where the truck was warranteed alright and spent productive critical days and days in the shop where the dealer tries to get the corporation to ok the claim before they will work on it....

Seems to me that the action of you asking this question means you are not the correct buyer, as they need to find a self financed (no loan no lease) buyer who doesn't ask these questions.

I wouldn't buy it for many reasons -

1 -The line has been discontinued
2 - The trucks had some dependability issues
3 - Being an International with some Cat badges, parts availability may be an issue
4 - Since it's been discontinued, the depreciation hit you take when you drive it off the lot would make my cry.

If you can buy it for 50% less than a new KW then I might consider it.:cool2

What are you going to do after 5 years? What about when a part isn't available even if your dealer is helpful in trying to find it? It would have to be cheap like the price of a ten year old truck to catch my interest warranty is not much to buy on

I think one way or another parts and support will be good even down the road. I'm in a position with my demolition business where I need a good reliable truck with a nice long warranty. I can get a well set up Cat, 475 hp, 18 speed, 14 k front and 46 k rears for right about $45 k less than a new kenworth. I thought the Cat could be a good truck to pull my end dump at a very substantial price break over Kenworth with a great warranty. I can buy the cat and nearly a nice new high side demolition end dump for nearly the same price as a kenorth.
Thanks for all the feedback so far. Greatly appreciated.

Kenworth is worth $45K more as long as it comes with an ISX. Do not buy anything with an International engine, CAT badged or not, warranty be damned. This coming from someone who worked for International for a long time...

Find yourself a good pre-emission '99-'02 truck with a N14 or 60 series. New paint, new tires, even if it needs a new engine you'll be so much money ahead it's not funny.

run!!!! there is a reason they are selling fleets of them at auctions. I know the ones around here have stayed in the shop more than on the road since day one.

Run far,run fast. it's an orphan of an international, it doesn't get any worse than that. Warranty doesn't cover lost revenue.

ben46a said:

Run far,run fast. it's an orphan of an international, it doesn't get any worse than that. Warranty doesn't cover lost revenue.

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This rofessor

The re-sale value will be terrible to boot.

Thanks for everyone's help! I decided against the cat and just ordered a T880 heavy haul. Will have it the middle of July.

If you're not familiar with the newer emissions engines, do a little googling. Any CAT ACERT engine is basically junk, they have huge issues, often, and in many cases the problems are literally never resolved. Sure there are some that live a long time with little trouble, but it's the exception rather than the rule. I've been researching Cummin ISX, and the sweet spot seems to be about 04-07 with EGR but before DPF, earlier engines should have been more reliable but had cam issues among other problems. The EGR engines are a bit annoying with EGR valves and coolers but all in all seem to live and perform much better than engines built before and after.

CAT alluded to the problems of making their engines meet Tier 4 final as the reason they dropped out of the on highway market, in truth the disaster created by the ACERT engines I believe forced their hand to bail, they simply couldn't keep enough of them running to make it viable.

The prices of diesel engines has more than doubled in recent years, it occurred to me just yesterday that a fair bit of that increase is probably their expectation of warranty costs based on the track record of high failure rates in many components, turbos, EGR systems, sensors, common rail pumps and injectors, DEF systems, etc.

Personally I would be thinking KW or Pete.

I will post pics when I take delivery. Can't wait to put this to work.

I haven't seen any more issues in ACERT engines in trucks before the 660 than I did with the Cummins engines in trucks or Isuzu engines in equipment. The deal with the Cat trucks is that they are not really a Cat engine. International morphed a Cat block with supposed new International technology and then bumped the horsepower per cubic inch to the point of ruining availability. International/Cat bet that they could meet Tier 4 final without the addition of DEF and lost the bet big time. I can sure agree on the cost of all that extra technology and its affect on reliability installed on everyone's engines now. I do wonder about Cat dipping their toes into markets with billions of dollars in investments and then flushing all the money down the sewer after only a few years. I seem to remember Cat did the same thing with Agco a few years back.

ACERT technology in the equipment line has been pretty much trouble free from my experience.

We just got a t880 with a stone slinger. It's Ben back to kW 3 times with engine codes. Our ct660 also seams to have engine light on more than off. Got to love the electronic motors

John C. said:

I haven't seen any more issues in ACERT engines in trucks before the 660 than I did with the Cummins engines in trucks or Isuzu engines in equipment. The deal with the Cat trucks is that they are not really a Cat engine. International morphed a Cat block with supposed new International technology and then bumped the horsepower per cubic inch to the point of ruining availability. International/Cat bet that they could meet Tier 4 final without the addition of DEF and lost the bet big time. I can sure agree on the cost of all that extra technology and its affect on reliability installed on everyone's engines now. I do wonder about Cat dipping their toes into markets with billions of dollars in investments and then flushing all the money down the sewer after only a few years. I seem to remember Cat did the same thing with Agco a few years back.

ACERT technology in the equipment line has been pretty much trouble free from my experience.

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In my line, some rental fleets have been experiencing 30+% failure rate in off road equipment, these are all Tier 3 C7 and C9, typically dropping valves or other cylinder head issues. Many of those of course have been complete engine replacements due to the ensuing damage, with all of them below 5,000 hours, many around 2,500.

The web is loaded with RV and on highway owners telling horror stories and trying to get class action suits going against CAT.

Mind you Cummins and other manufacturers are not fairing much better, but from the limited research I've done just recently CAT kinda poked the pooch from an engineering standpoint. They may be living better in CAT equipment simply because CAT derates their engines (and rightly so considering the duty cycles) for equipment usage and other factors to do with load and cycle. I could be wrong and am willing to have my mind changed but for now I'm steering clear of the ACERT engines whenever possible. Oh, and stocking with Tier 3 until it kills me, I'm old enough I might outlast my flex allowances!