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Ultra mini vs. 1.5 ton

thebobcatkid86

Active Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
28
Location
Olmsted Falls, Ohio
I want to diversify my capabilites. I am carefully contemplating adding another machine to my fleet (haha). However I cannot decide whether a ultra mini or a 1.5 ton would be better for my purposes. I would like to be able to offer the capability of one of these type of machines. Small ponds, trenches for out-building utilites, holes for footers, planting large shrubs/small trees. As well as the other host of things that a machine like that is capable of. Ive waterproofed a shallow basement, 5.5 ft to the footer with a Kobleco PC18MR-2.

A ultra mini would fit a little better with my existing rig weight-wise although I dont think my truck would have much problem moving a 1.5 ton occasionally. One of my plans is to one day get a 6x12 dump trailer and a F250 and haul them both at once. :D

Right now money is my main issue, I have roughly $6-8k to spend on this propostition. I know its not much but is this enough? OR am I going to end up with a worn-out POS thats just going to give me a million headaches? Should I save my money and quit looking for now.

If your next question is "why dont I just rent" its the size of my rig. The rental yards around here wont even think about letting me take one, even an ultra mini, even though its well within its capabilities. Even though I tow my 2500lb skid steer all the and time, they wont let me take a 1700lb (Bobcat 316) ultra mini because its a "1/2 ton" and not a "3/4 ton" truck. So then Id have to have it delivered and thats extra $$$ plus its kinda embarrasing. :eek:

I have run two different 1.5 tons one was an IHI (dont remember the model) and a Kobelco PC18MR-2. I also spent a couple of days on a Bobcat 430 which Id LOVE to own but I dont have $54k. The first two I liked very much and was able to accomplish alot with them while I had them.

One of my main concerns is with regard to the reliability/longevity as well as parts availability of various brands in this size machine. I have long been a fan of bobcat skid steers however I dont have much experience with their excavators, thats at all and none at this size. All the Bobcat excavators, except the 316 are USA made which would would be one thing I would consider a plus tward the 320 series. Bobcat's 316 is supposedly repaited Japanese something or other(Kubota?) Ive never heard for sure. Althought it does have the same engine as the Kubota K008-3 which is one of my favorites as far as ultra mini stats.

Right now I have no definte opinions with regard to brands or even whether I should get an ultra mini or am I going to be sorry and want a 1.5 ton. Now I know that everyone has their likes/dislikes and everyones going to play favorites and thats fine but I would just like some opinions.

Cheers - Owen
 

thebobcatkid86

Active Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
28
Location
Olmsted Falls, Ohio
It is - If you equip it that way.

When we ordered ours we got every heavy-duty option except a V8. Heavy duty suspesnion, oversize battery and alternator, 4x4, big mud tires:D, 5 speed w/ overdrive, class 4 hitch reciever, everything except we got a V6 to save a little bit on fuel. According to the book bed payload is 1250lbs. Actual tow cap is 4250lbs. My rig is 2500lb loader on 1500lb trailer = 4000lb. well within the book spec. With a heavy duty braking system on the trailer I wouldnt be afraid of 5000lbs. total weight.

My dads uncle in Houston has a 1983 Ford model 1700 compact TLB which is roughly 5000lb of machine. He puts it on a 2200 lb car hauler trailer which makes approx. 7200lb rig. He has an F250 to tow it normally, however more than once when the Ford was down he hauled it with his buddys Dakota! Which is one of the ones outfitted like a Ranger. 2wd, standard tires and suspension, etc. and did just fine. Mind you this guy was a trucker for many years, long before I was born, amongst his many skills (moto-x racer, metal fabricator). He told me its as much about the way you drive it as it is about the rig. He says he doesnt care if its a 1000lb trailer and load behind a 1 ton dually, if you drive it like a maniac youre going to wind up in a ditch or worse. But if you understand your rig, balance your load right, know how its going to react, anticipate stops, watch all your corners all the time then theres no reason you shouldnt be ok. And that goes for all driving, trailer or not.
 

KSSS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
4,319
Location
Idaho
Occupation
excavation
I have never run one those machines myself, so I guess I would be relying on experience of a brand rather than a particular model. If you ran an IHI in the 1.5 class and liked it I would try and buy one. I had an IHI for 4 years and was very happy with it. I have run their machines up to the 18K 80NX I have nothing but positive comments about them. As which is better the ultra or the 1.5 I would think the 1.5 would be more versatile.
 

FullMetalBucket

Active Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
29
Location
Port Dover, Ontario, Canada
We've got a Takeuchi TB007, it's small - real small, but man it can dig all day. We were (still are) on a budget when we purchased it for about $10,000. It has a Yanmar diesel engine, expandable tracks, removable canopy we can get in almost anywhere to dig and we still get $50.00/hr for it. That'll increase in the new year to $60-65.00 which is still good around here considering guys with backhoes only get $55-75/hr. We've got a GMC K3500 1ton dumper with a 7ton trailer and we stick our ultra mini and Thomas 133 on there - real good little set up. For some trenching jobs we could use a little bigger mini which I'll consider purchasing spring '08 depending on what I can find. I'd say, if you're thinking F250, go with an F350 with a dumper (or even F450), you can get these older trucks for $7-10,000 usually in good shape. The 7.3L diesels are reliable and cheap to rebuild is need be. Good luck with your decision.
 

totalloser

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
64
Location
Albion, CA
Occupation
Groundwork/Fabrication
If you want the bigger machine, get it. I pull a 3500 pound JD with a backhoe with my 4 cyl Tacoma on a 1500 pound trailer. 4.56 gears, but otherwise stock. You should have no problem with a stick and trailer brakes. I live in the mountains, too. (yes the squirrel screams on hills)

I got a one ton Dodge, but was really considering the old Fords. REALLY simple and tough. $1500 for a rering kit on the diesel, and NOT for the backyard mechanic. Beware the Powerstroke, they have problems. The 3/4 ton is the same truck as the one ton except it gets a dana 44 in front instead of a dana 60, and the rear has heavier springs (whooptie doo) They both get the Visteon Sterling rear axle which is absolutely GNARLY. Like a Dana 80.
Another really great overlooked thing about the Fords is that the older four speed behind the 6.9 is a towing dream. 6.5:1 first gear and 7:1 reverse. Or close to that. Most first/reverse are more like 4:1.
Out here they go for $2500 for a 4x4 pretty regularly.

I still pull with the Taco sometimes because it is super easy to maneuver.
 

jhill

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
70
Location
Thumb of MI
I have a Kubota KXB-2 1.5 ton machine. I bought it used for $9000 with !200 hrs on it. I have put about 400 hrs on it without problem. I wouldn't trade it for anything else. Plenty of power. It is less than 4 ft wide so I can get in tight places.

You need to be careful about what you are towing. There are many things such as overweight vehicle you can get away with but the DOT officer will catch you eventually. I was told you could get away with more towing a skidsteer than a Mini-X because a Mini-X looks more like a commercial load to a DOT officer. Don't exceed your trucks GCVW.

Be safe out there.

Jerry
 

totalloser

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
64
Location
Albion, CA
Occupation
Groundwork/Fabrication
Good point. I should have mentioned that I put a "real" reciever on it and everything is rated for it save the engine. Not quite stock, I guess. Honestly, I would be more worried about safety than DOT.

And I thought I got a good deal on my mini! I paid 4900 for a 1.5 ton Takeuchi the other day. But it was a rental, needs tracks, rops welding, and a ton of wrap up tinkering. That's a good deal you got!
 

thebobcatkid86

Active Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
28
Location
Olmsted Falls, Ohio
I really appreciate all the advice. Actually since my initial post I went to GIE+EXPO in Louisville. While I was there, as many of you know, I was able to sample nearly every machine in the industry. I was slightly disappointed to see that of all the manufacturerers only Yanmar brought their ultra-mini the SV08. More disappointing was the SV08's digging power, or lack there of. While I realise that these machines werent meant for mass excavaton I was surprised at its lack of power even in the somewhat sandy soil at the expo. It has to make one wonder if thats the standard of this size machine.
I did find something that took me by surprise mainly because it was something I hadnt even considered. A Toro Dingo TX525 diesel wide track with a backhoe attachment. Weighs 2700lbs with the attachment, digs to 6'8", will go through a 42" gate, and has a groud pressure of 3.5psi. Also it has much more digging power going down to 6'8" than the Yanmar also does to its 5'1". Plus with all the other attachments its an incredibly versatile piece of machinery.
To top that off my Stihl dealer that Ive been going to for over 8 years now is going start selling the Dingos along with their Toro mowers hopefully this year some time.
At this point I have no idea where my business is headed. I have no idea if or when Ill be able to buy another machine. But right now Im going to rent as I need and save for, what will probably be the Dingo at some point.
 

CascadeScaper

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
1,162
Location
Lynnwood, WA
Occupation
2nd year Operating Engineer Apprentice
I've spent a full day on an SV08 and it's not an underpowered machine for its size, you just have to manipulate the machine a little more. I was digging in hard clay and rotten soil, sure it wasn't tackling it very quickly compared to a 2 or 3 ton machine, but it was better than a shovel. The SV08 is not a bad machine for its size, you have to remember it's running a tiny little gas motor to power those pumps. Operation technique is very key when running these little babies, you can't just pull the stick toward you and expect that little machine to fill the bucket. You have to combine boom and stick functions and rock against the cut a little more than a larger machine to assist in making a cut.
 

Ohio Takeuchi

Active Member
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
43
Location
Columbus Ohio
I really appreciate all the advice. Actually since my initial post I went to GIE+EXPO in Louisville. While I was there, as many of you know, I was able to sample nearly every machine in the industry. I was slightly disappointed to see that of all the manufacturerers only Yanmar brought their ultra-mini the SV08. More disappointing was the SV08's digging power, or lack there of. While I realise that these machines werent meant for mass excavaton I was surprised at its lack of power even in the somewhat sandy soil at the expo. It has to make one wonder if thats the standard of this size machine.
I did find something that took me by surprise mainly because it was something I hadnt even considered. A Toro Dingo TX525 diesel wide track with a backhoe attachment. Weighs 2700lbs with the attachment, digs to 6'8", will go through a 42" gate, and has a groud pressure of 3.5psi. Also it has much more digging power going down to 6'8" than the Yanmar also does to its 5'1". Plus with all the other attachments its an incredibly versatile piece of machinery.
To top that off my Stihl dealer that Ive been going to for over 8 years now is going start selling the Dingos along with their Toro mowers hopefully this year some time.
At this point I have no idea where my business is headed. I have no idea if or when Ill be able to buy another machine. But right now Im going to rent as I need and save for, what will probably be the Dingo at some point.

You need to try a Takeuchi TB108 or a TB016 these are great machines. You will be very impressed with the power and price of the machine. I am in Ohio let me know if you would like to try one.
 

totalloser

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
64
Location
Albion, CA
Occupation
Groundwork/Fabrication
Comparing a DINGO to a mini excavator? You must be joking. That's like comparing one of those lawn mower powered tow behind diggers to a backhoe. You think the mini was bad, just wait and see how poorly a 1000 pound machine digs. You gotta have weight to dig. Just beware!

Also, a mini has two other features not included on one of those walk behind machines. It is about the same footprint, but to dig/dump, the chassis pivots on the undercarriage. You may have low pressure on the tracks, but after doing 180s for every scoop, the tracks/wheels will make a disaster out of almost anything. The other feature is a backfill blade. Always there without switching implements, and if you are cleaning up, you can dig dirt against the blade to pick it up, instead of pushing dirt under your chassis.

Not to say those things don't have their place, but after seeing them run, I am wholly unimpressed. Especially for the price. Excavators hold their value, too.
 

JohnTso

New Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
2
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
Sole Proprietor - Property maintenance light contr
We've got a Takeuchi TB007, it's small - real small, but man it can dig all day. We were (still are) on a budget when we purchased it for about $10,000. It has a Yanmar diesel engine, expandable tracks, removable canopy we can get in almost anywhere to dig and we still get $50.00/hr for it. That'll increase in the new year to $60-65.00 which is still good around here considering guys with backhoes only get $55-75/hr. We've got a GMC K3500 1ton dumper with a 7ton trailer and we stick our ultra mini and Thomas 133 on there - real good little set up. For some trenching jobs we could use a little bigger mini which I'll consider purchasing spring '08 depending on what I can find. I'd say, if you're thinking F250, go with an F350 with a dumper (or even F450), you can get these older trucks for $7-10,000 usually in good shape. The 7.3L diesels are reliable and cheap to rebuild is need be. Good luck with your decision.

Don't mean to hijack this tread, but I can't post new messages yet. Anyways, I'm looking at a used TB007 to add to my property maintenance business for light trenching, tree planting, shrub removal and the like. I hate using a shovel and pickax. I would also would consider subbing out to some friends of mine that do concrete flat-work. Would like to use the TB007 for site prep and maybe tear out of sidewalks and patios,if I can find a hammer for the TB007. Since you have one I thought I'd ask for your input about the capability and reliability of the TB007.

Thanks in advance!
 

JohnTso

New Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
2
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
Sole Proprietor - Property maintenance light contr
I should add that anyone else with TB007, or similar micro-ex experience, is invited to comment on my previous post.
 

mverick

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
12
Location
St. Louis
Have a old takeuchi 015. Great rig for down to about 6 to 7 feet. I've gone 9 feet and it's work.

For concrete tear out the 007 wouldn't work. I've used the o15 but, I'd go minimum a 035 takeuchi.

That's just me though. I wouldn't even bring a 015 for a driveway. The small are more for SMALL things. A driveway is large. Get a bigger machine.

I like the 007 but you really need to be set up just for it. I'd go with a 015 size and get a 8in bucket and a 12 to 16in bucket. Scraping blade is nice too. Haven't used a hammer on mine but with the size I'd be worried. Like to hear from anyone who has used a hammer on one of these in the 015 size. If it worked for busting a drive way up I'd buy one today.
 

Countryboy

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
3,276
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums JohnTso! :drinkup
 

Countryboy

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
3,276
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums mverick! :drinkup
 
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