Line Boring Systems

I have been giving much consideration to expanding my small company and getting into line boring.

This is how I ended up last year in this forum, while doing a web search for information in regards to line boring.
Needless to say just a ton of good information along with some great pictures of different jobs that are being done around the world on here. My note book is filling up. The sharing of information has been great, one of the reasons I have remained in the trades for this many years, even though the knees & back are shot.

I had the opportunity this winter to assist (be in the way) in a small line boring job and was that much more excited about the prospects of the work. There is something about the process of line boring /bore welding that seems to fit my way of thinking and the experience I have gained as a Millwright. I think there is money to be made in my location and within the Marine industry doing high quality line boring like I have seen done by others on this forum.
The project I was involved in this winter used the Climax BB5000 system and I was recommended to go with them when I take the jump.
I have looked at the Bore Repair System, York's system, American Machine Tools and also have found some home made setups. I have noticed that the costs will vary as much as buying your tools at say Harbor Freight vs. Snapon or Proto for example.
I am in the process of putting together costs of the different systems, I would like to walk into the bank with some information not just "give me some money."
When my work slows down in mid summer, which does in my line of repair work, possibly renting a line boring machine and do some self learning in the shop instead of sitting on the porch with the dogs drinking my beverage of choice and watching the afternoon fade away.

Any information that could be given in regards to the above systems and/or any other ones as I have seen in this forum or other ones that may be out there also, that are worthy of consideration.
If you could let me know why you use your system or prefer one over the other it would be a big help in my ventures down this path. I would like to invest in a good unit, that can be expanded but also don't want to put my company under just yet.

Thanks for the help! I am looking forward to hearing any and all information from the pro's.

RayF my 17 year old son wants to move to Perth and go to work for Hofmann, thanks for the link in your thread, what a great company and story of how they started. One hell of a apprenticeship program they look to have.

Stay out of the bight...
Regards,
Ray

What sort of line boring work are you chasing? Is their open cut mining in your area? Civil contractors with 30 ton diggers and 938 and 950 size loaders?
Hofmanns do about the best apprenticeship program around. It would be a great place to serve time.

We used a hydraulic-drive Climax B5000 system in my last job purely based on previous experience. As you are in Climax's neck of the woods then they would seem to be the obvious choice. Also they do rent line boring machines so that would tick one of your other boxes.

RayF, there are no major mining operations up that way. The nearest ones would be in Nevada & Wyoming and I'm sure that they are well catered-for as regards line boring. A good idea about the contractors with small to mid size machines though. With that in mind it might be an idea to have a look at the new thread posted by our friend in Holland regarding his line boring work. See here ....... https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?58224-some-work-pictures-by-BuMach&highlight=

I bought a Bore Repair System set up, for the price I paid I can't fault it, also you can upgrade as you want. I had work for a line borer but could not get anyone to do it, I had no previous experience, apart from watching a guy use line boring equipment a few times, so I thought I would give it a try.
A few practice sessions in the workshop, then out to my first job, all went well, you soon figure out the best way to use the equipment, also read everything on the Forum related to line boring and ask questions these guys have a lot of experience.
Don't try to rush the job.
It paid for itself in no time.

For us the economics were simple. The complete setup including machine, bars, bore welder, and all accessories cost around $85k IIRC. At the time we were being charged $30k a pop by an outside contractor to bore our loader arms and buckets and at the time we were averaging 3 of those jobs per year. Doing the maths wasn't hard .......

After we got the machine we soon got into doing our truck dump body pivots, grader & loader articulation joints, plus a few more jobs besides. we even started doing all our dozer blades and push arms. The line boring machine had work probably about 50% of the time. However having already paid for it then any idle time it had we weren't losing money.

I'm looking to do small to mid size work. There are a lot of midsize contractors around that I know do not do their own line boring. There is also a large agricultural amount of equipment, plus the timber industry. Within the Marine industrial sector there are a lot of over worked commercial vessels. I saw a company boring the steering system ram's ( 3" bores) on a commercial tug.
Doing a search the closest company that does mobile line boring is 80 to 100 miles away.
Thanks for the input and information.

If you're thinking of a BB5000 then I would say that your main decision is whether to go for a 1.25" or a 2" bar. A lot will depend on the range of bore diameters that you envisage you will be reconditioning.

I have only contacted Climax and received a quote for rental and have also asked them about used equipment.
Is there a significant difference in cost between Climax and York and Bore Repair Systems. I know there is a large difference in price between American Machine Tools. Reading the information between the them it is obvious why.

Looking at starting with a 1.25 bar.

You are thinking hydraulic drive I assume..?

The only Climax one I have seen run was electric. I am assuming hydraulic is a large jump in cost, but more bang for the buck. If I recall Tom who has a thread on here and does a lot of boring used a hydraulic power pack and was able to use the unit to also run his cylinder's when pressing in bushings, I could be wrong been awhile since I read through that very informative thread.

Hydraulic drive is not only more powerful but also as you say you can use the hydraulic powerpack for all sorts of other things. I'm not sure what the difference is in price between the two systems but it would be worth your while to investigate. We never looked past hydraulic TBH but then again we were going to be regularly running a 2" bar on up to 12" diameter bores.

I will investigate for sure, definitely want the ability to expand and put together the best package from the start that I don't have to go backwards due to a component that is not sized right.

So many choices to make...
It's just money

I know a bloke who uses a 21/4 inch climax bar with an electric drive. Its amazing the diameters he does with it. Its a much cheaper option and Climax also has a new motor that is supposed to be the bees knees. Hydraulic will always win out on sheer power though. The 21/4 Climax can be sleeved down with a conversion kit. You can start off with electric and upgrade to hydraulic later on.

I'm looking at the three different manufacturers I listed in my 1st post, trying to not only compare each company's options but also put together a package so when the manufacturer gives me a quote I am sure that I am comparing like products and getting a setup that will cover my needs at least for the beginning of this adventure. The more I learn the more questions keep coming up.
I don't want to over spend but also don't want to be caught short right out the gate. I have always invested in quality tools when I worked for contractors and especially now that I work for myself. My biggest customer expects their contractors to be fully tooled, independent, self sufficient and productive. When I make this large investment I want to continue on that path for all I do line boring for.

I think Tomv uses a York boring machine (electric drive) and a Bore Repair System bore welder.
Like Nige and RayF have said hydraulic drive has a lot more power, I suppose it all depends on how much $ you want to invest into the initial set up.
Small to mid size work then electric drive will do fine, most setups can be upgraded to what ever you need.
I use 1 3/4"x 6': 1 1/4" x 6' : 1 1/4" x 3' bars. However I don't do line boring full time, just when a customer needs it.

Thank you daterplant for your input, it all helps in the process of deciding. Wish I could say money was not a worry, but every investment into my company I choose with much considering and some lost sleep.
Thanks for the input on your bar sizes, a great help. Which type of boring unit do you run?
Regards

Where the difference comes regarding preference in drive systems (hyd vs elec) is bar diameter and length. Daterplant was saying his longest bar is 1-3/4" x 6ft, our longest bar was 2-1/2" x 16ft ....... you need some oomph to drive that before you even touch the tool to the workpiece.

Also you have to consider what is going to be the longest bar length of any "regular" job you might do and work your calculations around that. I have no idea how long the shaft tunnel bores on whatever boats you work on are, and therefore what length of a bar would be required. If it was me and a customer came to me wanting a job done that required a bar longer than the longest one in my toolbox I'd price the job to include either buying or renting a bar of a sufficient length to do the job, maybe even buy a bar and charge the rental price of the bar to the customer then you have something to keep for next time instead of sending it back. That's maybe another reason to consider Climax as they are quite close to you and I'm sure they have bars available for rent as well as complete machines.

Climax BB5000 electric (with new reversible motor) would be a good starter kit. U can always upgrade to hydraulic power later. The High-Freak electric is not recommended for field work, per Climax.
Check York for borewelders, programmable via logic controller.

Thank you StanRus, do you run the Climax and BB 5000 or a different make or model.
I like what I have seen and read so far on the York.
Trying to find time to finish putting together a list of what I would like and getting a quote from each manufacturer.

I got the bore repair system. Ordered 3 bars, bore welder, facing attachment, face welding kit, upgrades digital mic, inside diameter gauge, Total came to just around $32,000. That was the price with an educational discount similar to government pricing. Have been very pleased with it so far. Electric drive seems to have plenty of power even for .100 cut. I don't normally take but about .050 at a time but was trying the machine out to see how it performed and motor didnt even pull down any more then with a .050 cut. The bore welder is fairly quick to set up as well. I generally set it up and start to weld one side and I can go ahead and hand weld the other side at the same time. If you are wanting to get job done as fast as you can. Seems the entire machine set up time is quick depending on how bad the bore is worn.