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hoechuckers- standard control layout?

John Shipp

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Loggers question time...

Hoechuckers or excavators converted to a grapple, rotator and heel; in BC is there a standard layout for controls or are they all different?

I'm assuming the joystick functions for the base machine are as usual. On a roadbuilder that has a thumb, a bucket, and a heel/rotator/grab too, I imagine might be set different to say a madill 3800. Unless the madill uses the right hand joystick for the heel.

Our 360 has a solenoid valve to switch the oil from the heel to the rotate, with a button on top of joystick to change between. It's ok but can get muddled sometimes. Grab is buttons on front underside of joystick, which is ok.

Cheers.
 

BDFT

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I've hoechucked with a couple of clams, a butt and top or two and with a few heelbooms. I can't say the controls were all different but they weren't the same either. You mention a heel, on a heelboom usually a rocker switch on top of the stick operates the rotate and on the other stick the grapple open/close. The heel is operate by the curl circuit. Clams are the same. Butt and top are similar but they have and extra set of buttons for the outriggers, a set on each stick. Four button sin total on each stick. A bucket and thumb usually just has two bottons on one stick to run the thumb. BTW, Madill stick controls are the same as Cat, Komatsu, Hitachi, etc.
 

John Shipp

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Thanks BDFT, that's exactly what I was after. Think I'll have to do a "research" trip soon, take a look!. Cheers
 

camptramp

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Over the years on the West Coast of B.C. most manufactures of logging Equipment had their own version of what controls were the best . When hydraulics were introduced some were levers and pedals , some were joy sticks . In the 1990's the Workman's Compensation Board (WCB) regulated the controls in Hydraulic Equipment in the woods in B.C. .
 

John Shipp

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Hello Mr C T, that's interesting. I will see what I can find about that on WCB , will try google, see if there is any info.

It's a proper pita when you jump in a machine and look like a lemon because your muscle memory is used to different stick pattern.
 

BDFT

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Over the years on the West Coast of B.C. most manufactures of logging Equipment had their own version of what controls were the best . When hydraulics were introduced some were levers and pedals , some were joy sticks . In the 1990's the Workman's Compensation Board (WCB) regulated the controls in Hydraulic Equipment in the woods in B.C. .

I think they regulated the levers and pedals. SAE and ISO I believe. Otherwise known as John Deere controls vs Cat controls. I don't think they ever regulated button placement. I've run some awful contraptions over the years and very few of them have been similar. Of course, WCB regs to a logger have always been viewed more as a challenge than something that needs to be followed.
 

John Shipp

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Ah.
So does that mean a john deere log loader has different stick pattern to a Hitachi, or have they got a change over valve block so operator can choose? Over here they all ISO I believe, apart from JCB that has it's own pattern.
 

BDFT

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A John Deere log loader would have the same pattern as a Hitachi. They're practically the same machine. All larger excavators from the late eighties on in BC had standard controls. Cat, John Deere, Madill etc. Might have been different in other countries.Only the older JD excavators had backward controls (to me anyway) and many JD backhoes. I've only seen smaller machines with different controls nowadays and many mini exs have a switch or valve that changes it from one control pattern to the other. Climbed on a mid 90's wheeled backhoe the other day and couldn't run it worth sh*t because the controls were backwards. I can't comment on JCB as I've never even stood close to one.
 

John Shipp

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That makes sense. That's how I found it in the states, with older jd backhoes and smaller trackhoes. Was running a breaker on a bobcat and was not going smoothly at all until I mentioned to the hirer, and they said "oh" and went to that valve and swapped it over. What a relief that was.

BDFT, one more thing. Would the rocker switch for the rotate be on the left stick, the grab open/close on the right? On the heelbooms you've ran.
 

BDFT

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If I remember correctly, most of them were set up that way. Its a simple change anyway. Just move a couple of hoses or a couple of wires. If you wanted to you could wire a switch in the circuit so you could switch back and forth.
 

John Shipp

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Yep, gotcha. Sounds like I just need to move my rotate over to the left and I'll be getting in good practice for what might come next. Much appreciated info, cheers.
 

John Shipp

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Ah.
So does that mean a john deere log loader has different stick pattern to a Hitachi, or have they got a change over valve block so operator can choose? Over here they all ISO I believe, apart from JCB that has it's own pattern.

Been on google looking at sae vs iso, different sites claim sae is the norm with dipper on left, boom on right, but another site called this iso! Made me laugh.

Dipper on left is normal everywhere, anyway.
 
Last edited:

Sigurd

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All the excavators i've been servicing from 1990 till now, like Hitachi, Komatsu, Cat, Kobelco, Doosan,Jcb, Volvo, Åkerman had/has the SAE stick pattern, whitch means boom/ bucket right stick, dipper/swing on left. ISO stick pattern is the other way around.
 

John Shipp

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Hi Sigurd, this last hour I've been having a lot of fun, made my eyes sore reading on this subject. Just couldn't help myself...

Even manufacturers sites give conflicting references to this!

And then, from google, found my way back to here on HEF (personnel section) a thread on this, and Squizzy from Ozzie nailed it down I think to both being SAE- SAE (ISO) = CAT, SAE (Standard) = JD. Then there were a few other pattern names too that were clarified quite nicely by other posts.

Here's a chunk:

"SAE Standards
Document Number: J1177
Date Published: December 2006


Title: Hydraulic Excavator Operator Controls

Issuing Committee:
Mtc Sc5, Excavators

Scope:
This standard covers mobile hydraulic excavator controls and the specific arrangement and direction of motion for the primary controls. This standard applies to mobile hydraulic excavators as described in ISO 7135 - Earthmoving Machinery - Hydraulic excavators - Terminology and commercial specifications, and ISO 6165- Earthmoving Machinery - Basic Types - Vocabulary. Purpose This standard is intended as a guide for designing uniform two lever type operating controls for mobile hydraulic excavators, either wheel mounted or crawler mounted on independently reversible tracks.

Product Status: In Stock

File Size: 673K

Control patterns (ISO or Standard)--The operating pattern of an excavator's joysticks. There are two predominant joystick patterns on compact excavators. When operating in the ISO pattern, the right-hand joystick controls the boom up/down function and the left-hand joystick controls the arm in/out function. With the "standard" pattern, these two functions are reversed.



Regards from the Scrub somewhere near Karratha, Western Australia

Squizzy "

Cheers, John.
 
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