Bobcat t190 power loss ...new motor , maybe turbo ?

Tillys26 · Feb 1, 2016

willie59 said:
Ok, yes, that's more info for sure, but with the amount of work that's been done it's still going to be tough to pinpoint what the problem is over an internet chat. From what you've stated, fired right off after the initial rebuild and install, then discovered the head was cracked, replaced head with new head, but even with this done, as time went by, took longer to crank and start engine. Curious problem indeed. A very typical problem with Bobcat machines is fuel supply restriction, mentioned previously by crewchief888, but given the timeline of events you describe that doesn't sound like the problem. Fuel restriction typically shows up under hard load, not so much causing having to crank engine for 10 seconds for cold start up. Still not sure what's going on with this one. :beatsme

Hey Willie let me clear this up real quick , it started fine when we first put the rebuilt motor in but then noticed the head still had a pin hole leak so we took the head off and got a new one and when we got it back together it is now having a harder time starting , usually about 10 seconds turning it over , sometimes sooner if i pump the fuel bulb up ... so im wondering if it doesnt have something to do with the injector timing .. i need to order a service manual for it im thinking ... its a 2001 t190 with the kubota v2003t motor

Wes J · Feb 1, 2016

Jumping in late, but I would pull all the lines to the injectors and clean the ends. It's possible you are getting air in the system somewhere.

greenhead21 · Feb 8, 2016

Tillys26 here is the timing procedure out of the maunal from you. Send me a message if you cant see it and I can send them to you in an email.

Tillys26 · Feb 15, 2016

greenhead21 said:
Tillys26 here is the timing procedure out of the maunal from you. Send me a message if you cant see it and I can send them to you in an email.

View attachment 149854

View attachment 149855

Thanks Greenhead21 for taking the time to put that on there for me, were still trying to do a few other things before we tear into that , since the injector pump wasnt taken off when we took the head off so it really shouldnt be off with the timing , but maybe worth a shot if nothing else works out , im wondering if its not somethihgn in the drive maybe ? we took the lines off and ran it straight from the gas can we mounted on top to bypass the tank and bulb and everything and it didnt change anything ...also we did the air in the fuel line fill and no leaks or anything ..... still cant figure out why its so hard to start initially like its losing prime.... but after it starts it idles and runs fine(besides when it loses power when going up steep grade or handles all the way forward up a hill ) and restarts fine ..... sooooooooooooo frustrating

Tillys26 · Feb 25, 2016

Does anybody know the torque specs for the fuel injectors ? I'm having them rebuilt as they said they were bad and just dribbling ..... Thanks hopefully this is gonna be the cure lol

crewchief888 · Feb 25, 2016

Tillys26 said:
Does anybody know the torque specs for the fuel injectors ? I'm having them rebuilt as they said they were bad and just dribbling ..... Thanks hopefully this is gonna be the cure lol

i cant recall ever seeing a spec for them...

:drinkup

Tillys26 · Mar 1, 2016

Ok beyond frustrated, we got the new fuel injectors back, $350 later, bolted them in and started it back up and still the exact same, nothings changed, it still turns over about 10 seconds for the initial start, runs and idles fine then powers down when you go up a steep grade ...... so anybody have any other ideas ......? it will start up fast and easy once you have started it once .... losing my mind on this .......

Tillys26 · Mar 1, 2016

old-iron-habit said:
Injection timing correct?

if the injection timing was wrong would it still idle fine and run fine on flat ground ???

DB2 · Mar 1, 2016

Was the transfer pump ever changed? How about the fuel shutoff solenoid linkage? Is it external?

TriHonu · Mar 1, 2016

I'm not a diesel mechanic, however since this started after you changed the head:
Are you sure the new head is the same as the one you replaced?
Can a thicker head gasket significantly change the compression?
Have you checked the valve clearance?

Swapping out a head is not too involved. If the engine was running properly with the cracked head would lead me to look at what was changed, adjusted or touched during the head swap.

Tillys26 · Mar 1, 2016

That's the problem
I'm
Starting to second guess myself
On whether it did start ok before I replaced the head because it was about 6 months in between..... And ya it was the same head , I haven't went back to check the valve clearances , would that possibly cause this type
Of problem ?

TriHonu said:
I'm not a diesel mechanic, however since this started after you changed the head:
Are you sure the new head is the same as the one you replaced?
Can a thicker head gasket significantly change the compression?
Have you checked the valve clearance?

Swapping out a head is not too involved. If the engine was running properly with the cracked head would lead me to look at what was changed, adjusted or touched during the head swap.

Tillys26 · Mar 1, 2016

DB2 said:
Was the transfer pump ever changed? How about the fuel shutoff solenoid linkage? Is it external?

The transfer pump wasn't changed ... And the fuel
Solenoid linkage is external and seems to be fine

Black71gp · Mar 2, 2016

Just tagging along, as I have all the same issues. Mine takes A LOT longer to start than 10 seconds, but the total lack of power when going up a grade where the engine bogs down and smokes like crazy unless you let off the sticks to get RPM back up.

all I know that was done to mine at some point was the head... its a different color. I have done timing check, injectors, injection pump, all fuel pumps, and tank, and hoses, and intake and exhaust, and everything.. I'm about to drop the money and just get another engine completely.

TriHonu · Mar 3, 2016

I asked about the head because I have read that Kubota manufactures this engine (and other models) with either direct or indirect injection heads.

I don't know if the heads require different pistons or whether the heads require different supporting parts.

My comments were based on the limited number of things that you probably touched or changed during the head swap. If these symptoms truly started after the head swap then either the swap started the issue or coincidentally, a new issue is causing the problem.

greenhead21 · Mar 5, 2016

Tillys26 do you happen to know where you got the cylinder head that was installed on this machine? Was it an actual Kubota cylinder head or an aftermarket? The one I installed was from Kumar Bros USA wonder if the aftermarket head has something to do with the tolerances not being to spec or some other issue with the machining of the head.

Tillys26 · Mar 6, 2016

Does yours
Idle
Fine and run fine on flat ground ? Mine seems to ... It's not as much power as should be ,but it does run fine ...so frustrating

Tillys26 · Mar 6, 2016

greenhead21 said:
Tillys26 do you happen to know where you got the cylinder head that was installed on this machine? Was it an actual Kubota cylinder head or an aftermarket? The one I installed was from Kumar Bros USA wonder if the aftermarket head has something to do with the tolerances not being to spec or some other issue with the machining of the head.

I bought mine from kumar bros also .... Everything looked to be the same

I just don't understand how it idles And runs fine on flat ground ... Though it seems it should have more power ... I wonder if it has anything to do with the turbo ... Even though I see no problems
With the turbo and I still have the starting issue which has nothing to do with the turbo

I'm completely lost

greenhead21 · Mar 6, 2016

Did you buy yours with the valves already assemblied? Mine was fully put together from Kumar bros. Mine stars fine and has good idle. For the most part on flat ground it runs ok but definetley has a lack of power and when trying to go full speed ahead of in reverse with joy sticks all the way forward or back it smokes black smoke and has a 10-20% power loss. Going up a hill as mentioned will kill the machine unless you let off the joy sticks and then the rpms will come right back. I am thinking there is something up with the head that Kumar bros is selling that is leading to these issues. Everything worked and ran fine before head being replaced and the only thing that was changed was the head leads me to believe that the head and the assemblied valves are the problem. I am going to call them tomorrow and see if they have an answer.

Tillys26 · Mar 6, 2016

greenhead21 said:
Did you buy yours with the valves already assemblied? Mine was fully put together from Kumar bros. Mine stars fine and has good idle. For the most part on flat ground it runs ok but definetley has a lack of power and when trying to go full speed ahead of in reverse with joy sticks all the way forward or back it smokes black smoke and has a 10-20% power loss. Going up a hill as mentioned will kill the machine unless you let off the joy sticks and then the rpms will come right back. I am thinking there is something up with the head that Kumar bros is selling that is leading to these issues. Everything worked and ran fine before head being replaced and the only thing that was changed was the head leads me to believe that the head and the assemblied valves are the problem. I am going to call them tomorrow and see if they have an answer.[/QUO

I actually bought the bare head and had the machine shop who rebuilt the motor move everything from the stock head into the kumar one ... It starts fine after the initial first start , which makes me believe it's something fuel related..... Or maybe valves ? Man I wish I knew a bobcat mechanic ! Let me know what u find out

greenhead21 · Mar 8, 2016

Today I was finally able to get in touch with the trouble shooting guy at Kumar Bros. Kinda what I figured he would say was what he did. He hasn't seen this issue at all so doesn't believe it is a head issue. He figured it was a bad piston or ring. Doesn't make much sense to me but that was his take on it. He said that the head they machine is universal fit for V1903 V2003 and V2203. Does anyone know if this is correct that the heads on these engines are all interchangable? He was saying the only difference was that the Tier I Tier II and Tier III just have different coolant passage paths but the rest of the head is the same. So he is saying that because it is only a difference with the coolant passage ways it would not affect the performance of the machine. I thought the Tier I Tier II and Tier III versions of these engines had to do with the updates in emissons and designs of the engines? Am I wrong or can someone explain what the Tier I II and III stand for or what the differenece is. I called Bobcat today and they want $1,800+ for just the head. SO with that said not excited about changing that head again. Any help on these questions would be helpful.

Bobcat t190 power loss ...new motor , maybe turbo ?

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