• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Cat vs. Miller lawsuit

W

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,536
Location
Canada
74 million is pocket change for Cat but I'm sure it's not the first time Cat has stolen someone else's technology. The fact it was in the courts for 5 years suggests Cat was trying drag it out hoping Miller wouldn't want to pursue it. Now if buyers want the coupler, they might look at other machines that have the coupler available. I heard a long time ago that JD sources more products from other companies than anyone else. Their compact tractors were made by Yanmar for years but a lot of owners still insisted they were genuine JD tractors.
 
W

Wes J

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
Messages
649
Location
Peoria, IL
Welder Dave said:
I heard a long time ago that JD sources more products from other companies than anyone else. Their compact tractors were made by Yanmar for years but a lot of owners still insisted they were genuine JD tractors.
Click to expand...

That's a slippery slope. Deere has sourced Hitachi equipment for years. The 444, 544, 644 loaders were Hitachi. Hitachi made all the excavator undercarriages for years, and may still. All the small Deere diesel motors are Yanmar. New Holland made their skid steers for years. Many of the smaller tractors were made in Germany or Italy.

But, Cat is no better. Cat sources tons of equipment from Mitsubishi. In fact, Cat owns about 80% of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. Same with Perkins. Cat owns them outright and most of the small Cat motors are Perkins or Mitsubishi.

I could go on and on:

Link Belt = Samsung

Gehl = Takeuchi

IH = Hough

Case = Drott

Etc, etc.
 
D

DIYDAVE

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
2,419
Location
MD
The point I was making, is that Deere is perhaps the thievingest manufacturer, out there. They lost another lawsuit, against Kinze manufacturing, coupla years back, google it, its a good read, kinda like David and Goliath... Deere also had an agreement with Cat, in exchange for cat teaching them how to build a 4 cylinder motor, back in the '60's, deere was supposed to stay out of the construction business... Randy Leffingwell wrote about it in his book, see link. I don't necessarily have an animus toward deere, just like to guffaw, when they stub their toe...

https://books.google.com/books?id=A...tractors engine design by caterpillar&f=false
 
W

Wes J

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
Messages
649
Location
Peoria, IL
It's SOP I'm afraid. In another life, I was an engineer for a Japanese OEM designing cars. There was a database of all the patents the company held and you could see any legal action ever taken with those patents. Something like 25% of all of them were being battled in court for infringement by a Korean competitor.

It pays to break the law. You copy the other company and sell as much product as you can while fighting it out in court. When the lawyers have wasted enough time and money, maybe you pay a royalty or some big fine. But who cares? You now have massive market share and momentum in the market.
 
S

SchuLace

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2012
Messages
81
Location
USA
Wes J said:
That's a slippery slope. Deere has sourced Hitachi equipment for years. The 444, 544, 644 loaders were Hitachi. Hitachi made all the excavator undercarriages for years, and may still. All the small Deere diesel motors are Yanmar. New Holland made their skid steers for years. Many of the smaller tractors were made in Germany or Italy.

But, Cat is no better. Cat sources tons of equipment from Mitsubishi. In fact, Cat owns about 80% of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. Same with Perkins. Cat owns them outright and most of the small Cat motors are Perkins or Mitsubishi.

I could go on and on:

Link Belt = Samsung

Gehl = Takeuchi

IH = Hough

Case = Drott

Etc, etc.
Click to expand...
If Cat owns Perkins, is it really a Perkins or is it a Cat?
 
C

carken1

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Messages
9
Location
Nebraska
Occupation
retired
Distribution=Cats

SchuLace said:
If Cat owns Perkins, is it really a Perkins or is it a Cat?
Click to expand...

Look how many companies use Cats distribution system and how many tried to figure it out and try to copy it. Harley Davidson, Nike
are a few.
 
I

ih100

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
731
Location
Peterborough UK
SchuLace said:
If Cat owns Perkins, is it really a Perkins or is it a Cat?
Click to expand...

The same engines go out of the door in Cat or Perkins livery. Same motors, different badges and paint. Cat ET won't work on a Perkins, and Perkins Electronic Service Technician won't work on a Cat.

Wes, where have you got this about Cat owning 80% of Mitsubishi? They have had various joint ventures and licensing agreements with Mitsubishi, most of which they are trying out get out of, or already have. They are also looking to displace Mitsi, Fiat and Kubota engines with their own product over the next few years.
 
W

Wes J

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
Messages
649
Location
Peoria, IL
I used to work for a Tier 1 Cat supplier. We shipped OEM Cat parts to Japan weekly. Various models move back and forth depending on exchange rates and demand. Lots of Cat machines have been made in Belgium and France.

No offense to anyone from England, but I hope Cat drags Perkins out of the dark ages, kicking and screaming if needed.
 
G

GregD1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Messages
221
Location
Tonopah, Az.
Occupation
Equipment for a paving contractor
Later model Volvo engines are from Deutz. Volvo skid steers are JCB. Deere and Hitachi have been together for years. Hitachi the brains, Deere the marketing. JCB excavators I thought were Sumitomo also. Always seems like if you can`t build it, buy it.
 
I

ih100

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
731
Location
Peterborough UK
Wes J said:
I used to work for a Tier 1 Cat supplier. We shipped OEM Cat parts to Japan weekly. Various models move back and forth depending on exchange rates and demand. Lots of Cat machines have been made in Belgium and France.

No offense to anyone from England, but I hope Cat drags Perkins out of the dark ages, kicking and screaming if needed.
Click to expand...

Were you referring to the joint venture between Cat and Mitsi to produce forklifts, 80% owned by Cat? Or Caterpillar Japan, which was formerly SCM, itself set up as a joint venture predominantly to develop and share excavator technology but gradually bought out by Cat? Both of which are small fry to Mitubishi Heavy Industries.

As for the comment about Perkins, care to elaborate? Preferably Without retreading the (true) stories we're all familiar with concerning the Perkins/Shibaura compact engines, which only represent a small proportion of the output from both UK sites.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top