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Snow pushing with tracks

Boulder86

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
11
Location
quesnel, Bc
Just wondering if any of you have figured out a way to get traction in winter time? I have made some bolt on cleats for both my machines and I do have the camoplast BBE tracks on the T300. Still is a struggle pushing snow or climbing hill with the CTL:Banghead!! Has anyone tried studs or what works best for you? I know tracks aren't meant for snow, but when its all a guy has than you try to make it work!!
 

pafarmer

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
883
Location
Somewhere in the woods !
Occupation
Land clearing, demo, site prep etc. Ex Pro Motocro
We have studded tracks in the past with snowmobile studs..that worked really well but was a huge undertaking to install all of the studs with the backing plates. We had drill through the track and mounted each one....last year we tried motorcycle ice racing studs. They just go directly into the thread from the top side with no backers required . Much improved traction on ice and snow but the heavy skid would pull a few every now and again but we simple screwed in another and went again. Rubber tracked machines are not good in the snow and ice period but the motorcycle studs did improve traction greatly...care needs to be taken if you pare on blacktop , the studs can and will tear stuff up pretty good if you are not paying attention. We were in the woods fighting for traction on frozen rock hard earth...most of our machines run on metal undercarriages now so not that much of an issues but the ones on rubber are studded year round...good luck.
 

maddog

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
730
Location
middle TN
I never had an issue(when I lived in the Adirondacks) except when an ice storm came, but then it didn't matter whether it was rubber tracks or rubber tires.
 

movindirt

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
672
Location
under a shady tree
MTL's are the best track machines in snow hands down, and, depending on how much snow and how wet it is you'll out push a wheeled machine of the same size. That said rigid frame CTL's (like your bobcat) are pretty much worthless in snow, it takes a bit of thinking ahead when plowing with one. As for how to make it better traction wise, well, what I do is just park it and use a mtl :tong Studding it would be your best bet.
 

pafarmer

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
883
Location
Somewhere in the woods !
Occupation
Land clearing, demo, site prep etc. Ex Pro Motocro
I forgot to add that establishing a pattern is critical when you place the studs. The idea is to have as many contact points as possible with the studs to the surface. We have over 750 studs in each track and could have placed more with ease. I ran them on a diagonal across the entire width facing forward movement if that makes sense to you...A normal, semi aggressive snowmobile Pattern has approx 144 studs according to the guy I bought my studs from..Rubber tracks on snow and ice is never great even with studded tracks but much improved over having nothing....We tried fab'ed up cleats once but torn those off in a few weeks time while working in the woods....
 

maddog

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
730
Location
middle TN
Off topic a bit but basically same discussion. Back when I road sled(snowmobile) all my friends would stud their tracks, I never did. I went all the places they did and had just as much fun. On the upside my tracks lasted a lot longer and didn't tear out. Studding the track was not all bad it did give them a quicker hole shot and on bare lakes(no snow just ice) they obviously dug in better. For me the cost didn't justify the studs, for them it did, difference of opinion/ego. I think studding a CTL might be worth it, but it will shorten the life of the track. I used an MTL and have to agree with Movindirt.
 

pafarmer

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
883
Location
Somewhere in the woods !
Occupation
Land clearing, demo, site prep etc. Ex Pro Motocro
Studing does not shorten the life of a snowmobile track, It may have in the past on vintage sleds with crap tracks but not on today modern tracks. We stud all our tracks with little degradation to track life. Anyone that knows snowmobiling, knows that you don't stud your track to be able to go, you stud your track to be able to stop ! . Yes, they help bite out of the hole and provide traction going forward but mostly used to stop the sled from high speeds in a controlled mAnner. If anyone doubts what in saying, get going about 65 down an icy highway and slam on the brakes of your car or truck and tell what happens...out of control in a big hurry , Modern sleds are extremely fast , In order to go fast, you first need to be able slow down just as quickly or you will only go fast one or two times before you kill yourself...,besides what does a guy from Tennesee know about snow and ice..,,ha ha ha...just kiddin on that part.
 

Boulder86

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
11
Location
quesnel, Bc
Well my cleats that I put on my tracks are actually giving me a lot of traction! I would say that on the level when clearing beside a wheeled machine with chains, that my machine is still doing better. I just have been having trouble keeping them on the track and was looking around for another solution. I think the biggest part of our winter here is over though in central BC so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing till spring
 

maddog

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
730
Location
middle TN
Studing does not shorten the life of a snowmobile track, It may have in the past on vintage sleds with crap tracks but not on today modern tracks.

I agree that modern tracks are better but putting a stud in does put a lot more force/stress on that small area compared to the track just sitting on the ground.

We stud all our tracks with little degradation to track life.

So taking a piece of track drilling holes into it then placing a stud doesn't cause more stress then if the track were to just be used undrilled and unstuded? Again I agree newer tracks are much better quality. I grew up ridding the older machines 12-3 and the 335 skidoos, rupp, scorpion, snow jet etc.. I have also owned and put many miles on modern machines.

Anyone that knows snowmobiling, knows that you don't stud your track to be able to go, you stud your track to be able to stop ! . Yes, they help bite out of the hole and provide traction going forward but mostly used to stop the sled from high speeds in a controlled mAnner.

Kind of a contradiction in your own wording. I doubt highly back when the studs came out they were worried about stopping. Studding is for better control/handling and originally better hole shot and traction especially when it came to ice racing. Is there a benefit to stopping, of course, but the real reason for studding is traction, a little bit of an edge over your competitor, better contact means higher speed .

If anyone doubts what in saying, get going about 65 down an icy highway and slam on the brakes of your car or truck and tell what happens...out of control in a big hurry

Why are you doing 65 on an icy highway in your vehicle, and then slamming on your brakes? :D :D

Modern sleds are extremely fast , In order to go fast, you first need to be able slow down just as quickly or you will only go fast one or two times before you kill yourself...,besides what does a guy from Tennesee know about snow and ice..,,ha ha ha...just kiddin on that part.

Lived in the Adirondack mountains most of my life, just recently moved here(less then 2 years) I remember back in the day when we would ride sled almost every week from thanksgiving until easter. Weekends were the time to go to the lake races, trust me, know one that studed was worrying about stopping, in fact complete opposite, they were trying to get that extra edge on speed. You can have 300hp but if you can't make that 300hp contact the ground you might as well have a kittykat(not sure if they make them anymore). I remember when the cleated tracks came out, if you weren't careful and stopped on the lake they'd freeze solid, course that is when they came out with this new style undercarriage, sliders instead of boogie wheels.

Pafarmer; I agree to a point with what you're saying, but lets not kid anyone, studs are for speed and control. They were designed to get the machine moving as quick as possible, an added benefit is control and yes better stopping.
Be safe out there on the trails, had many friends over the years loose their lives or become crippled because of speeding on sleds, one reason I quit riding. I was never worried about my driving but met many of idiots drunk, racing through the woods to get from one bar to another. Last ride I took we had a small group left at 800hrs in the morn, by 1000hrs we met our 1st drunk. He had driven into a tree. His group thought it was funny, they got him loose, then he drove straight into my wife's sled, got him loose again and he nailed another tree. Never understood the need to do 80-100MPH while going through the woods, oh well maybe I'm just getting old :D
 

pafarmer

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
883
Location
Somewhere in the woods !
Occupation
Land clearing, demo, site prep etc. Ex Pro Motocro
Oh man, I can see you are a snowmobile expert......and that you are one of those Guys that enjoys twisting words about to make their own point ! You may be a politician ! My qualifications to comment are as follows,

My family owned and operated a huge Yamaha franchise for 25 plus years. We sold snowmobiles and motorcycles, ATV's m generators etd and lots of them. Can you Guess who studded the tracks on just about every single sled we sold and who spoke to the Reps selling the studs themselves for most of those 25 years...Go back to sleep now Maddog......old guys Jeez !!!:Banghead:Banghead:deadhorse
He he he
 

DIYDAVE

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
2,420
Location
MD
I use a ASV RC30 regularly, for snow pushing (well as regular as MD gets snow, LOL). Never had any real problems, except in one ice storm, when I wasn't even pushing snow (I was moving a round bale, to feed the cows, and slid down a slick spot, maybe 60 feet till I lowered the bale, as a brake!). Never put studs on it, never needed them...
 

pafarmer

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
883
Location
Somewhere in the woods !
Occupation
Land clearing, demo, site prep etc. Ex Pro Motocro
WOW, sounds like one hell of a ride DIYDAVE ! the AVS chassis is much better in the snow than most others....
 

U8u812

Active Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Messages
25
Location
Massachusetts, Cape Cod area
Had over a foot of wet snow in driveway/dirt road this morning. Usually clear it with my Cat rubber tire skid steer. It is dead for now, so I had to use my new Ditch Witch SK850.

It took a lot longer, and I dug up the road more. Partly because machine is new to me and smaller, but also there is less feel to the bucket controls, and the tracked machine tends to ride right up on the snow if the blade is not angled down a bit. Have to watch for those icy branches with no cab protection!

The machine goes great over the snow , but just like with rubber tire loader, it is good to get down to driveway surface and not make an ice glaze & start sliding around. If I was still doing commercial snow removal, and had to use this machine, I'd get a snow blower attachment or at least an angle plow.
 

DIYDAVE

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
2,420
Location
MD
Did the whole 800 foot driveway today, about 3-3-1/2 hours. It was about 1 continuous drift 3-4' deep. The ASV RC 30 and the 6' angle blade did well. Some of the piles were close to 10'high... Woulda been less time to do it with the blower, but I got a chain off it, and need to replace it, just ain't had the time, yet...
 

kshansen

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Mar 11, 2012
Messages
11,165
Location
Central New York, USA
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Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
I have never used studs before. But these look like they would work good for tires or tracks. http://www.maxigripicestuds.com

I could have used some of those on the sidecar outfit I road to work year round! Actually would be interesting to try them on the yard loader that does work year round loading truck and plowing snow in the quarry. Watching a 980K sliding along with all four wheels stopped when you are in a little Case 1845C can get your heart beating a little fast!
 

Colorado Digger

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Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,169
Location
Carbondale,co
Thank god you all got done fighting about studs on snowmobiles.....My t770 pushes fair to crappy. If it is fresh snow it is ok, like pushing off an area that has dirt or something underneath. I would never go try plowing a commercial snow account with it. The traction is horrible on frozen blacktop.

CD
 

dozerman400

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Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
136
Location
schaumburg, il
Occupation
Heavy equipment operator
Track skid loaders on paving is hard on the cabs, vibrates everything loose. If you need this machine in the dirt or stone I would limit the snowplowing.
 
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