Thinking about a used backhoe - dig into limestone?

Been thinking about getting a backhoe for our small ranch here in central Texas and one project I have in mind is digging a 5'x5'x6' hole for a concrete base for a crank-up ham radio tower. Our ground here is basically limestone rock, some pebble size some much larger with some caliche soil as a binder

So I guess the first question is would a hoe be the best piece of equipment to dig out a mostly square hole? Maybe the only other option would be a jackhammer and lots of manual labor (not for me, thank you.) I realize that a larger hole than necessary means more $$ for concrete. Even if my idea of using the hoe isn't practical, I can certainly put a loader/hoe to good use around the place.

As far as loaders/hoes go, I've spent a bunch of time looking through this section of HEF trying to get a feel for the market and what to look for and what to avoid. It seems the big three in the used market are Deere, Case with a few Cats thrown in. Any generalities favoring one manufacturer over the other, like parts availability, parts expense, ease/difficulty of repair and routine maintenance, ease of operation, etc? I'd like to get a machine no older than say mid 1990s.

How desirable is an e-hoe? I don't see myself digging out a 12' trench but it would be nice to use the hoe as a crane. Does an e-hoe add to resale value?

Thanks fellows!

Nobody has an opinion?

A backhoe on a ranch is going to be very handy , to the point if you get use to having it you will never want to get rid of it. As far as digging limestone how hard? I'm not a fan of the extendahoe to me they add so much more weight it makes them more tippy. We have steep hills to be on here. Level areas would be better for x hoe. Most all brands in the mid to late 90s are good as long as maintained. Case L models are hard to beat and I have a Cat 416C.

I am not a big fan of a backhoe personally, but in the right hands they are a useful tool. We have several Newhollands, and they never stop. The extend a boom is nice, because sometimes you can't quite reach, and it is easier to extend out than to drag yourself back, or sideways with your bucket.

Dickjr. said:

A backhoe on a ranch is going to be very handy , to the point if you get use to having it you will never want to get rid of it. As far as digging limestone how hard? I'm not a fan of the extendahoe to me they add so much more weight it makes them more tippy. We have steep hills to be on here. Level areas would be better for x hoe. Most all brands in the mid to late 90s are good as long as maintained. Case L models are hard to beat and I have a Cat 416C.

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I think a backhoe would be like my compact tractor/loader - how did I ever get along without it! One big limitation of my compact tractor is the bucket will only lift 1,000 pounds which has been a problem in the past. This tractor is just too small for our little ranch.
How hard is our soil? We had a pen rebuilt and the fence guys were able to use an auger on a skid-steer to drill most of the post holes but had to rent a compressor/jackhammer to do a few of them. When we had a second meter installed, the power co-op guys were able use their pole truck with drill/auger to do all of the holes. The soil isn't hard like granite in the east but there are some huge boulders hiding. My thought is if a hole doesn't work out, I can move a few feet and try again. Maybe I should ask a rental place what would work for my job.

cuttin edge said:

I am not a big fan of a backhoe personally, but in the right hands they are a useful tool. We have several Newhollands, and they never stop. The extend a boom is nice, because sometimes you can't quite reach, and it is easier to extend out than to drag yourself back, or sideways with your bucket.

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Since you aren't a fan of a backhoe, what's your alternative?

I cannot give you an unbiased opinion as I retired after 50+ years with the same Case dealer. As the gent previously stated the 580Ls were a great machine and starting to get a bit more affordable, Really, any Cases were dependable but don't buy earlier than a C series Case because of modular construction which makes servicing the power shuttle a snap comparatively. You would really have to find an exceptional C or D to get a machine that does not need a lot of TLC so stay as late as you ca afford comfortably

That being said, wisdom would seem to dictate the choices would be centered around the local dealer and his service and parts reputation, Don't buy any machine that you have to travel great distances for parts. Cat, JD, and Case would be my recommendations but not necessarily in that order.

My Tristeo tower is a 75 foot electric winch type which retracts to 21 foot. It sits on a base with 4x4 X8 rebar reinforced concrete foundation.. I believe the contractor said 11.5 Yards of concrete. Good luck with your detup

73S Mel---------KC3EH

Hi Mel,

To my surprise, the closest Case dealer is about a 90 minute drive. We are rural and used to driving long distance for major shopping (which is about 70 miles away) so that's not a huge deal. We do have one local JD dealer so I'll have to factor that into backhoe shopping.

I was thinking about a US Tower HDX-555 (55' extended) with a tilt-over fixture but haven't made a final decision. I primarily work the digital modes and enjoy 10 & 15 meters the most. Did you contract out the tower base or do some of it yourself? 73 and thanks Mel de WB5THT

On another note - anybody have any ideas about what model/years to avoid with Deere backhoes or those that were particularly good? I have a shuttle shift on my tractor and can't image using anything else

Here again, the earlier JDs were built on a tractor and were castings from front to rear requiring a lot of labor if internal failures were encountered. The modular tractors had engne and power shuttle mounted in a frame with a short driveshaft to the rear so drive components could removed individually without hoe and loader removal. JD people can tell us when JD went modular.

The people here are a great resource of knowledge, You name the piece and someone is here to tell the pros and cons of any model.

I basically run 20 mtrs and have a Bencher Skyhawk at 75 feet, Kenwood TS450S and a TS830 which I prefer for receivers sake and audio, have a 1600W 2X 3-500 homebrew amp, the combination has very little problems in pileups. I haven't been on lately so do not know about recent propogation as we drop away from the peak of the cycle.

Any time I can help let me know, obviously my life was spent keeping Cases running so they would be my best as far as help. If you would like my cell # drop a note to car.mel@juno,com

73s---------Mel KC3EH

Good to know about the modular/non-modular JDs. Yeah, I've been amazed at the aggregated knowledge on the HEF board - everybody was a great help when I was figuring out what small dozer to buy a few years ago. (Sold the D39 to my brother-in-law who has a larger ranch - they have run the heck out of it clearing cedar.)

I'm running a TS-590S - a fine rig. My first "real" radio was a TS-520 after I got my General license in the 70s, always have liked Kenwoods. The beauty of the digital modes is 35-50 watts is plenty of power (usually.)

Thanks for the offer of help Mel, much appreciated!

Really any deere year and cat are good not like case but still one in the same in a way.

John Canfield said:

I think a backhoe would be like my compact tractor/loader - how did I ever get along without it! One big limitation of my compact tractor is the bucket will only lift 1,000 pounds which has been a problem in the past. This tractor is just too small for our little ranch.
How hard is our soil? We had a pen rebuilt and the fence guys were able to use an auger on a skid-steer to drill most of the post holes but had to rent a compressor/jackhammer to do a few of them. When we had a second meter installed, the power co-op guys were able use their pole truck with drill/auger to do all of the holes. The soil isn't hard like granite in the east but there are some huge boulders hiding. My thought is if a hole doesn't work out, I can move a few feet and try again. Maybe I should ask a rental place what would work for my job.

Since you aren't a fan of a backhoe, what's your alternative?

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I'm not setting you against a backhoe, I mean as an operator, I prefer an excavator over the back bucket, and an actual bucket loader over the front bucket. I work with a guy who would take the backhoe over the vader any day. On a farm, a backhoe would be choice because of it's versatility.

JDfan500C said:

Really any deere year and cat are good not like case but still one in the same in a way.

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Okay - that really makes shopping significantly easier. Thanks.

cuttin edge said:

I'm not setting you against a backhoe, I mean as an operator, I prefer an excavator over the back bucket, and an actual bucket loader over the front bucket. I work with a guy who would take the backhoe over the vader any day. On a farm, a backhoe would be choice because of it's versatility.

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Ah, gotcha. I don't have the luxury of buying dedicated machines and I realize the multi-purpose machines are a compromise.

I spent quite a bit of time on Machinery Trader yesterday looking at the market for <= $30,000 backhoes and it seems like the Cats command a higher asking price than JD, and the Case's seem to be a bit lower. The Cat's all have around 5,000 hours and up and some of the JDs and Cases are in the 3-4K hour range. What is really annoying are the "spray paint" overhauls - those units look like new in the photos and you don't get a sense of how beat up they really are. Some of them look like they also detailed the cab and maybe replaced the operator seat.

Ah, the good old "10 gallon overhaul" ........ what a bugger. A coat of paint, a detailed cab, and a new seat hides a multitude of sins.

TBH I wouldn't buy anything like that from photos, the chances of a backhoe having been well abused in a previous life is much too high to spend in the region of $30k and end up buying a lemon. I'd either want to see it in the flesh myself or have someone that I really trust to look at it for me.

Yeah I use that site to it tends to be on the high side on prices. Cat is always going to cost more cause it's a cat. Jd tend to make better backhoes more stable and simple. Case are lighter and more top heavy. 3-4 hours aren't bad just depends how it was used and more important its maintness.

I bought my dozer unseen on an Iron Planet auction and what I got was exactly as represented and exactly what I thought I was buying. They have a pretty good detailed inspection process and now I notice they (IP) include videos of the engine running. Maybe I got lucky and maybe I didn't.

The problem with not being familiar with a type of equipment (I know nothing about backhoes) is I wouldn't know what was important to focus on - visually or operationally. Of course I can inspect hoses (replaced every hydraulic hose on my 1998 Kubota tractor about three years ago), check brakes, make sure the hydraulics work, all of the obvious things but an experienced backhoe operator could probably size up a piece of equipment in a few minutes. Now if I jumped on a Kubota tractor about the same size as mine, I could quickly tell if it was a piece of junk or not.

So what I'm saying as a clueless shopper, Iron Planet at least has an inspection report by I assume a qualified inspector. The only issue I had with the dozer purchase was dealing with a lying freight broker. I wired the guy about $2200 bucks and he kept yanking my chain about when it would be picked up. One time he said it was on the truck headed my way - I called the seller and she said, no - it was still on their lot. After threatening the guy with legal action, they finally wired my money back. I think Iron Planet helped me in the background deal with the jerk broker once I brought it to their attention and IP stopped using them as a freight broker.

When I looked at my user account with them I noticed I was authorized to bid up to $150,000 :drinkup :usa

I would imagine that the well used hoes are out there if you can find them. This spring an elderly man passed away here. He had an older JCB that he bought new in the 80's. Besides the odd post hole, or septic tank, all the machine did was dig graves. His first set of tires rotted off before they wore out, so he kept the new ones covered when it was parked. I think it had about 8000 hrs which is nothing for a 30 year old machine. His widow sold the backhoe, an equally cared for 78 international 3 ton dump, and tag along float for about 16 grand.

Yessir, I've seen a few oldie-goldies out there, one of them wasn't running and the asking price was $9,000. Good luck to that fellow.

I use a backhoe to dig through lime stone here in outh florida

https://youtu.be/k_WZ-ufeOwQ

I went from a 580L to a new 580M series I. It is a barn queen with about 700 hours. It is simple with no electronics and is the most useful machine I have with absolutely no problems and was 10k less than a Cat.

monster76 said:

I use a backhoe to dig through lime stone here in outh florida

https://youtu.be/k_WZ-ufeOwQ

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Looks like you were gettin' it done. (I was born in Miami, my brother-in-law lost most of his house during hurricane Andrew)

Legdoc said:

I went from a 580L to a new 580M series I. It is a barn queen with about 700 hours. It is simple with no electronics and is the most useful machine I have with absolutely no problems and was 10k less than a Cat.

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Man, you have the toys! Simple is good.

Thanks fellows.