Thinking of buying Cat 963 A high hours

Why would you need new rods?? just press in new small end bushings and have them honed out to fit the pins, just as a matter of info what is scripted on the B/End shells (Part No and any detail O/S U/S) the engine re-builder must be some right Tool I suggest you keep well away from him, I.P.D. engine parts is good kit that is often better than O.E. in my mind that holds up very well, most of my customers go for the cheap crap its not my worry as it costs the same to fit as the good parts, if the re-builder gives you any money or parts I would be shocked as his liability stands with the man that paid his Bill, save yourself a load of crap and just tell him he is sh1t at his job and move on to the man that had your coins you might have more luck.
tctractors

p.s. Next time you go spending money, take your Cousin as he is sharp!

I,d pull the engine out n down and get it to a "good"machine shop and let them remachine it completely. its clearly been jack legged to get it sold. I bet every corner has been cut. rebuild the rods, install over size valve guides/valves, give block /crank what they need. check cam good for wear. might pay to .install reman oil pump too . clevite make excellent o/h kits for this engine for about 900.00 I,d drop starter and alt off and have them gone thru while there off. DB electric sells new alts n starters cheap. if you get cat reman yes there good but no better than a quality reman components your machine shop can give you.
jmo
bob

p/s
I bet the cam bearings are shot also., get a reman water pump too.

I've removed all of the piston assemblies. All of the wrist pins have a similar amount of play.

I plastigaged 3 rod bearings (didn't reinstall that #4 piston assembly) and they were all perfectly in the middle of spec-- 3 thousandths. All of the bearings look visually similar.

My original idea of just replacing the rods was because I saw them for $35 .. but they were aftermarket which sounds bad for something that goes this deep inside an engine. My machinist said he could do the bushings for about $35 though, which seems all that's necessary on the rods, so I'd probably stick with these rods.

I sent a request to the rebuilder. I'm not seeing much danger in letting him fix this stuff. He seemed to want to correct it once he heard how egregious the valve thing was. I can take it by the machine shop and let them look it all over before I put in in the engine.

If I had time, I'd certainly do more... but I don't feel like I'm cutting too many corners here.

that head is shot,i,ve never seen guide holes worn that bad. this tells you what the rest of the engine is right off imo

Not sure where that temp indicator is mounted but looks like the engine was run hot too. And that valve guide bore in the head is scary! What happened to the engine before the last guy who worked on it must have been a real work of art. I'd be pulling that one down to the small bits and check every nut and bolt. Probably half the bolts are grade 2 from the dollar store torqued in with an air wrench.

never do just the little end of a conn rod. do big and little ends.

Well.....After reading through this thread,I can only agree with those that say 'start again from bare block '.Before you do this however,you must be totally confident in the fitter that you choose to rebuild it.This will be somebody that is allready in high demand and with a price tag you may not like the sound of.This will be the right man for the job.Clevite,IPD and Cat are all good for your engine and whilst I understand this may appear to break the bank,you will be able to recoup that 'investment' by selling it at the end of the project.
You need to document absolutely everything with pictures and bills from that highly reputable fitter that you need to find

The rebuilder requested I send him the head (at great expense of time and money to me) ... I had sent him this picture previously:



He sent the head to the shop he got the head from, described as "very reputable" ... They claim the valve guide is just worn out, and it's not their fault. (This is all after approximately 100 hours of use). And, although not sure as to my how advantageous this is to me, at least one of the other valve guides is worn and ob-longed, just not with any gap around it. So now I have no head and have spent good money to send it to them, when it seems this picture should have been descriptive enough from the start.

What prompted all of this was how alarmed my machinist was at this finding the guide like this, as he stated he was 100% confident that because of the geometry of the gap surrounding the guide, the head should have been trashed.

I believe they tried to install valve guide seals to mask the problem. As far as I know, this engine isn't supposed to have valve guide seals. And I read that valve guide seals can impair lubrication for engines that aren't designed for them, create more problems (that are possibly what I'm seeing with the other valve guides).

BTW, I realize this guy has little direct responsibility to me (though apparently the warranty is transferable and things are often handled outside of the warranty period). I haven't threatened him or anything. He just seems to want to preserve his reputation. He's shown initiative (publicly) to protect his reputation in the past. I want to be fair.

And I also realize that I'm not in a great situation here with the state of the engine. But I know I need a good head, so that's what I chose to pursue for now.

Do you guys have any opinions on whether the head was bad before the rebuild, or whether it all could have occurred afterwards?

The hole around the valve guide didn't magically happen in 100 hours since a rebuild, I'll say that much .........

I,am with nige

Tractor is snake bit it seems

I,d buy a new aftermarket head personally but I,d also pull the engine completely down and bring it back up so I,d know its right.

Nige said:

The hole around the valve guide didn't magically happen in 100 hours since a rebuild, I'll say that much .........

Click to expand...

To that I'll add in 45+ years of working on big engines I have never seen one that bad and how the gap got outside of the guide then wore the inside of the same guide is beyond me. We restored an old antique AC Mack that was parked in a hedge row for maybe 50+ years and the valves heads were rusting away and that one the guides were not as bad as this one!

3208 cylinder heads should be the same, you would have to check casting numbers, you can buy used on-road 3208's for dirt cheap since they are pretty much useless boat anchors compared to newer inline 6 medium duty engines. You'd have two head cores to work with and a bunch of spare small parts.https://raleigh.craigslist.org/hvo/5181292076.html Also I have build engines for certain customers with tight budgets out of mostly good used parts. I've never had anything but compliments on the engines I have built. Usually hard to find used heads that are still within spec, but they are out there...

Steve, the guy who rebuilt this thing, is a real piece of work. Not that he necessarily had any obligation to me originally, but after him having suggested I send him my head, I expected him to take some responsibility to get this thing fixed. Instead he turned it over to his supplier and put me in contact with them, which seems a bit unprofessional to say the least. They're much easier to talk with, but they've got notes from the project where he stated to just get it working as cheaply as possible, so they did. They want $800 to fix that POS head. So I'm out the $150 to ship it and a core.

Anyway, I'm done with him. I'd be wary of dealing with Steve Spencer from Mid America Diesel.

I have been scanning for these. That craigslist one was a 1978 which is probably precombustion, a different head.

CAT wants 1200$

This guy seems like a real nice guy and can get the head to my door for $660. Casting #2W7165:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reconditioned-Loaded-Caterpillar-2W7165-Head-3208-3204-/201362084096

My CAT dealer didn't seem to think a 3208 head would fit because of the intake manifold connection, but I've definitely read otherwise. But after all this crap, I do want to make sure I get the right head.

Here's a place where the casting #2W7165 was taken back to part #9N5819
http://www.dieselcastwelding.com/ca...flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=105&category_id=21

Would that fit and are the internals matched for a 3204T?


My rods are done ... Got new wrist pins and bushings.

Now my CAT dealer called with a "take off" that he can get me for exactly $660 delivered too. And it's off a 3204T. So what's better, a "take off" that comes through CAT, or a remachined one off ebay? (seems like I should know the answer)

Or a CAT rebuilt one for 1200$ ....

buy a new aftermarket head, there good too go.... anything used needs to go to a good machine shop to be checked out before install.

crazyjncsu said:

I have been scanning for these. That craigslist one was a 1978 which is probably precombustion, a different head.

Click to expand...

I've never heard of or seen an 1160 or 3208 that had precombustion chambers... :beatsme

BCOWANWHEELS said:

buy a new aftermarket head, there good too go.... anything used needs to go to a good machine shop to be checked out before install.

Click to expand...

Doesn't necessarily need to go to a machine shop, just need a good straight edge with a set of feeler gauges, a dial indicator and a good set of eyes... Just my 2c . I've got more time then money for my personal machines. If the machine was going to be making money working 12hr shifts for years to come then I would go balls out on it, but it's not..... If it were mine I'd get her fixed up decent, as cheap as possible (aka good used head) do the work you bought it for then sell it to recover some of your money spent. Again just my opinion!! :drinkup

I'd be just as happy with the used head from the Cat dealer as aftermarket so long as it was checked first.

Its already off, it doesnt make sence to not send any head new or used to machine shop to be checked to me and seeings the original was in such terrible shape if you dont pull the engine and go thur it now you will shortly i promiss