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backhoe VS mini excavator production questions
- Thread starter 413wedge
- Start date
apm
Well-Known Member
I figured that was what you meant, it just struck me as funny. Didn't mean to derail the thread.
Greg
Greg
413wedge
Active Member
Carl Peter
Well-Known Member
I have a cat 305.5D mini which has been great and a 420DIT backhoe.. It really depends on what you are doing the ground where I work can get extremely hard not to the point where it needs to be hammered but close. When it gets that hard the backhoe is more productive the boom on the 420D is ridiculously strong, and digging large stumps will be more productive just based on power. Other than that the mini hands down.
I also have an extra capacity 24 in bucket on the 305.5D which it handles no problem which puts the c.u.ft. capacity the same as the backhoe
I also have an extra capacity 24 in bucket on the 305.5D which it handles no problem which puts the c.u.ft. capacity the same as the backhoe
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There is a lot to consider in this question. I used to live in Vta. Co. (like the OP reports) and started my business, back in '96, with a 416B. My primary work was foundation excavation for masonry, tilt-ups, and custom homes. I also did utility work. Some of the masonry work was garden wall footings (usually proto II) on tract homes. Tract homes in SoCal are usually 5' from P/L and I could still get the backhoe in there. I had a competitor that began using a mini for the same work. My backhoe could out produce the mini, hands down, despite the mini being more size appropriate for the conditions. Since I have moved I have changed my business model and now have a mini (Bobcat 435, [+/- 12,000# as equipped]), and a skid (Bobcat A300). I still have my 416 (now a C model with over 12,000 hours), along with other, larger equipment. The mini and the skid are a good combination but my backhoe will out dig the mini by a lot. In my opinion one would need a bigger machine (which would negate the small size advantages) to match production of the backhoe. The mini has a lot of advantages (full house rotation, plus swing separate from the house, track mounted, etc.) but if it's smaller than the 'hoe it will not have the same bucket capacity capability, or break out forces.
Only you really know what jobsite conditions you will encounter, and so it will be hard for others to give the best advice. From what I remember about my work in SoCal the mini/ctl combo would not have been the best combination, and definitely not 50% more productive. I certainly would not tell you not to make the investment though. I might recommend that you keep the backhoe though. That way you can have more versatility.
Only you really know what jobsite conditions you will encounter, and so it will be hard for others to give the best advice. From what I remember about my work in SoCal the mini/ctl combo would not have been the best combination, and definitely not 50% more productive. I certainly would not tell you not to make the investment though. I might recommend that you keep the backhoe though. That way you can have more versatility.
stumpjumper83
Senior Member
I have had experience in several different backhoes from deere 310sj's, case 580sm2's, cat 420e, new Volvo, and new New Holland. Cat makes the best cab, deere and case do an alright job about even, Volvo's are odd, and your going to be hard pressed to outperform a new Holland, especially the 115b's. That being said, I wouldn't trade you my takeuchi tb053fr for any of them. At just under 7 ton, it will beat a backhoe in straight line digging across an open field, and make a backhoe look foolish when digging basements. I have a hydraulic thumb, 2' and 3' digging buckets w/ a wain roy coupler - get a different one, other than that I love it. As for digging an lifting, I do very well, I lack a little, not its not an issue, I just start getting tippy with a heaping load on in the 3' bucket. Here is a pic of a addition that I dug and hauled out.
Oh, and I have a ctl too, a gehl ctl 70 which is a takeuchi 140, it handles an 80" bucket very well. It can load a triaxle but its not the same as having a tlb, as it lacks the foreward reach. I think if you demo'ed a takeuchi tb153fr or the bigger tb180fr, and I'll bet you keep it.
Oh, and I have a ctl too, a gehl ctl 70 which is a takeuchi 140, it handles an 80" bucket very well. It can load a triaxle but its not the same as having a tlb, as it lacks the foreward reach. I think if you demo'ed a takeuchi tb153fr or the bigger tb180fr, and I'll bet you keep it.
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CM1995
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DGODGR beat me to it, good advice.
That being said I'll chime in. I have a 420DIT and I had (sold it) it a Bobcat 334 - it was tired and someone wanted it more than it worked.
For my business, I can't justify a new mini in the size I would want. A new 305.5E runs $70K there a bouts with cab and A/C. I can't run it enough to justify that expense. The 420 has paid for itself a few times over and is a stronger machine than the 305.5 and comes with a front bucket, quick attach and forks.
A 420 will set a 4x4 pre-cast knock out box where a 305.5 will not. The 420 can carry that same box across the site and then bring bedding material for the pipe. It can also load out a tri-axle, however I can pull a 305.5 to the job with my F350. Most of the sites I work on are big enough that the maneuverability of a mini is not enough to offset the versatility of the 420.
Only you can determine which machine will fit your specific needs, the machines we need differ as much as the jobs we do. :cool2
That being said I'll chime in. I have a 420DIT and I had (sold it) it a Bobcat 334 - it was tired and someone wanted it more than it worked.
For my business, I can't justify a new mini in the size I would want. A new 305.5E runs $70K there a bouts with cab and A/C. I can't run it enough to justify that expense. The 420 has paid for itself a few times over and is a stronger machine than the 305.5 and comes with a front bucket, quick attach and forks.
A 420 will set a 4x4 pre-cast knock out box where a 305.5 will not. The 420 can carry that same box across the site and then bring bedding material for the pipe. It can also load out a tri-axle, however I can pull a 305.5 to the job with my F350. Most of the sites I work on are big enough that the maneuverability of a mini is not enough to offset the versatility of the 420.
Only you can determine which machine will fit your specific needs, the machines we need differ as much as the jobs we do. :cool2
Available in the States?
I can not find a dealer in the USA.
Might trade the Cat for one.
Any idea on the cost for one?
I can not find a dealer in the USA.
Might trade the Cat for one.
Any idea on the cost for one?
413wedge
Active Member
stumpjumpers experience is closer to what I have to deal with. my title I think is a bit misleading im in the market for a "midi" I should have said. the break out force of the machine I plan to replace my 420 with will be comparable . im thinking 13k - 14k ex and a 10k ctl. most of my work now is extremely tight spaces ie basements with complicated footing details and plumbing and ejection systems. I pretty sure of what im looking foe and plan on demoing the ex and ctl combos from cat, deere , Kubota , and Hyundai. I appreciate all the input but I was more specifically looking for some production type numbers to kind of get a feel for what I might be able to do. I feel like im loosing work to the slow production of my machine. alothough I know im faster than other guys on my hoe than two guys are on mini ctl combos. last week I started a job same size as the one next door ad these guys were already working on and finished a day ahead of them. I walked their job and their work was ****. im not a guy who blames his shoes when he cant run fast enough.
joispoi
Senior Member
stumpjumper83
Senior Member
Id love to give you some numbers man, but I don't want to miss lead you. We are not in typical mass excavation here where everything is ideal, we are into tight quarter, limited access, you better know what your doing excavation. I can tell you this, Ive moved 280 cu yrds, 500 with 2 trucks, from behind this building in a day with only one truck. But the dirt was beside a old coal mine and I believe was exposed to dynamite repeatedly, bucket tore thru it like a knife thru butter. At the end of the thread your going to have to call a dealer and rent or demo one to know for yourself. Here is some midi excavator porn.
sometimes you don't have any room at all...
can't do this with any other hoe...
its a lot for it but I was able to pick, carry and set this boulder
sometimes you don't have any room at all...
can't do this with any other hoe...
its a lot for it but I was able to pick, carry and set this boulder
SeaMac
Senior Member
I'm resurrecting this old thread because I'd like to know if anyone has any experience with Mecalac machines? I have contacted Mecalac to determine if and when they may become available in the US market. For the projects I am now involved with installing dry underground utilities for power and communications distribution these machines would seem the ideal, adding the auger attachment and a small diameter grapple would even allow me to set street light poles. Having to transport and deal with one versatile machine per project would make logistics much easier and more economical since projects range all over Central and South Florida both coasts too. Clearly they're manufactured in and mostly used in Europe so I am seeking information from European members. Thank you in advance for any input...
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SeaMac
Senior Member
Well, that's not good news at all. They do sell them in Mexico, I wonder how that could be helpful...
SeaMac
Senior Member
There is VERY good money in underground power and communications work. Ever since the 2004 hurricane season when Florida got walloped by four storms then Momma Nature followed that with the encore known as Wilma in '05 there has been a huge drive to get all distribution underground. What people neglect to consider, all transmission is still overhead and will remain so for the foreseeable future but, I won't argue with damn good money. And yes the Mecalac would be superb for this type of work especially with a pole grapple and pole extractor attachment. Mostly all the old poles we remove are replaced with wind-rated fiber or crete poles with LED light heads atop. Now, if I can convince Mecalac to configure the 714MWe Wheeled Excavator in the same fashion, I'd have cake AND pie and be able to eat both. Wheeled for me is really the way to go as some of the projects are expansive, we'll see, all they can say is no!
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All you have to do to bring one in I would think is make sure the engine meets current EPA regulations. If it's got a CE or EU emissions sticker that may be enough, along with a letter from the engine maker. Probably easier if it's declared as a used machine, but I won't swear to it.
SeaMac
Senior Member
I received a reply from Mecalac, apparently they are in the process of delivering a machine -not sure which machine- to NYC for contractor evaluation, delivery timeframe wasn't disclosed. Seems they've received numerous request from the US for access to their machines. Perhaps in the near future we'll be able to acquire these versatile machines after all, nothing could make me happier to at least demo one but still would like to hear from those in Europe who operate Mecalac's.
Paul C. Lorusso
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- Walpole, Massachusetts
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- Sell sand, stone and construction equipment.
Paul C. Lorusso
Active Member
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2016
- Messages
- 30
- Location
- Walpole, Massachusetts
- Occupation
- Sell sand, stone and construction equipment.
We are selling them out of MA. if you have any interest give us a call, 508-660-7600