New to Big Dozers--Read Please.:)

LDK · Dec 24, 2007

385Diggin' Doug said:
All hail Mr.Dozer:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy
I was only referring to constantly looking at the right corner.Read and think before you shoot your mouth off.I have been doing this for 33yrs and do most of our companies finish highway grading with our graders and production dirt work with our hoes and dozers..Everybody has a different style and approach.With all of your vast years of unsurpassed knowledge and perfection ,should'nt you be able to feel an empty blade?:beatsme

Ohh, I thought that would get a response,"Mr Dozer" I like the sound of that, thank you for the recognition.
Now seriously, if you had said "constantly" in your original mail, you would not have heard a peep out of me!
Even so, with my "vast years of unsurpassed knowledge" and as you say perfection, I honestly can't feel where a dozer blade is in loose material as it goes from empty to full and I will not tell you that I know exactly where it is in firm material if I don't pay it some attention with my eyes.
This has spoilt my Christmas, I feel like I`m faking it.

You enjoy the holiday though.

PS. I my also be inadiquit due to the fact that I pay more attention to the left corner than I do the right, as viewed from the seat.

Eric · Dec 24, 2007

I have never run anything smaller than a D-9 N . But as far as back dragging goes, where I work it is a cardinal sin. We do our finishing with a blade. We don't do work with sand so I can't honestly say how to finish it, maybe a trowel!??!!

Deas Plant · Dec 24, 2007

All that help - and good work done.

Hi, YoungOne.
I was pleased to read that you enjoyed your first day on your new toy and had some good results to show for it. Good stuff.

There is one thing that it is a good idea to ALWAYS bear in mind. There will forever be differing views on the 'right's and 'wrongs' of operating. The RIGHT way for you is the way that is easiest and yet most productive for you while doing the machine the least harm.

I don't know what tree Pushkid84 fell out of, his experience or nay of the rest of his background, but he IS entitled to his views. Where I might disagree with him is his apparent willingness to SHOVE them down the throats of others. May I suggest that you make up your own mind about him and his views.

BTW, you are most welcome to any help that I can give. Somebody had to teach me when I was starting out. The least I can do to repay them for their help is to pass it on in turn.

white_boyz1 · Dec 24, 2007

back draggin

:laugh :falldownlaugh :falldownlaugh :falldownlaugh :falldownlaugh :falldownlaugh :falldownlaugh the way i was thought was if you needed new cutting edges just call the service guy and he would bring them out.back draggin just sharpens the edge so you dont have to buy new ones>>>>>>>>>>>.hahahahahaah

biggixxerjim · Dec 24, 2007

When doing finishing work, it is a requirement to go and backdrag for your final pass out. And to say that you can do anything forwards that your can backwards with a blade, I suggest you expand your horizons.

I wish I was on jobs that didnt require backdragging. If I were on a job with nothing smaller than a D9, I wouldnt be doing much bd either.

Deas Plant · Dec 24, 2007

Back-blading.

Hi, Pushkid84.
I've got more time on machines than any of the other quotes so far in this thread and I've done my fair share of fine grading with all sorts of different machines, dozers included.

I can tell you there's just no way that I am going to turn around and go to the other side of a pile of material just to push some back to a low spot when I can drop the blade over it and drag it back with me, then pick it up and cut it off on grade without wasting all that time turning twice so that I don't offend YOUR sensibilities. Hey, I'll even back-drag material with a grader if that is what I see as the most efficient way to do the job and your 'experts' can go jump.

Expert: an 'ex' is either a has-been or an unknown quantity and a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure.)

Get real. Use the machine in the most efficient, least damaging way possible, THAT is what is made for, not to be used as a 'toy' to follow some 'Holy Bible' of utter crap dreamed up by people who would impose their values on the rest of us, no matter what.

All of the best operators I know will tell you, just about word for word, what I have just written above.

Merry Christmas and a happy, prosperous and better informed new year.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

Deas Plant · Dec 24, 2007

I'm with LDK - only I DON'T feel inadikwit.

Hi, LDK.
I'm with you. I can't feel if there are only a few pebbles or small clods on the blade of a D11 either. And I usually only KNOW that I have started a light cut with one if I use my eyes. Does that make me 'insensitive'? How-wevver, I DON'T feel 'inadikwit' about it. If the 'wannabe experts' don't like it or feel that they may be in some way superior to me because of it, I am sure in my own mind that THEY are the ones with the problems. You see, they still have to live long enough to have operated for as long as I have and get their butts on as many machines as I have to be able to claim the breadth of experience that I can claim and do the numbers of different types of work that I have done to be able to lay claim to that too.

You have a wonderful festive season, Mate.

Eric · Dec 24, 2007

:cool2 You can see there is a drastic difference between mining and construction. I would like to do more construction, "Broaden my Horizons". But in all seriousness our GM's and formans will write you up for backdragging right or wrong that's the way business is done here.

Lashlander · Dec 25, 2007

Deas, you the man! All good posts as usual! :drinkup Merry Christmas

Eric, I've never worked in a strip mine so I can't comment on that. I have worked for a few contractors and have never once had one of them question the way I'm using one of their machines. I've also never had anyone tell me they don't mind if I leave grouser marks in their driveway when I get a call to top it for them. I just assume they are paying me to make it smooth so I try.

Deas Plant · Dec 25, 2007

Mining Vs Construction.

Hi, Eric.
Welcome to the forum.

Yes, there are a few differences between mining and construction, especially when you are talking about hard rock mining/quarrying.

I have yet to see an operator's manual that said, "Do NOT under any circumstances back-blade or drag the blade backwards." However, it is not uncommon for there to be a warning about back-blading damaging the blade base in rocky going or if it is snagged on a stump or suchlike. I once saw an operator on a Hough D500 4wd dozer forget to lift his blade quick enough at the end of his push into a hopper and tear it right off when it snagged in the grate as he backed away. Now THAT took a little while to fix.

As with any other aspect of operating, there are hazards to be guarded against but most of them are just plain, old-fashioned common sense, which valuable commodity seems to be becoming increasingly UN-common and less valued these days. I have no intention whatsoever of abandoning my meagre remaining supply.

I can see that there might be a need in a hard rock mine or quarry for a no back-blading rule but that is a whole different ball game from what most of the folks here are talking about. They're talking about fine grading in softer, more easily worked materials.

Trowel????????????? What's that??????????????? Sounds like something that Portugese fella, Manuel Labour, might get involved with. LOL.

Deas Plant · Dec 25, 2007

Same backatchyer, Lashlander.

Hi, Lashlander.
Thanks for your kind comments and wishes and the same backatchyer. Just watch out for those big fuzzy teddy bears that you have up your way. I'd guess they're pretty much all sound asleep now but the big boogers tend to wake up in April/May, all hungry and out of sorts, I'm told. A bit like a bear with 3 sore heads. LOL.

Steve Frazier · Dec 25, 2007

There are a number of posts on the previous page of this thread that are not of the tone I'd like to see here at the forums. Anyone here can post their opinion without being critical of others, but when things get heated we'll shut it down.

Let me suggest everyone take a breath before they post and put down their thoughts without the finger jabbing and chest pounding I've seen earlier.

Thanks!!

RollOver Pete · Dec 25, 2007

Deas Plant said:
I can tell you there's just no way that I am going to turn around and go to the other side of a pile of material just to push some back to a low spot when I can drop the blade over it and drag it back with me, then pick it up and cut it off on grade without wasting all that time turning twice so that I don't offend YOUR sensibilities. Hey, I'll even back-drag material with a grader if that is what I see as the most efficient way to do the job and your 'experts' can go jump.

Expert: an 'ex' is either a has-been or an unknown quantity and a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure.)

Get real. Use the machine in the most efficient, least damaging way possible, THAT is what is made for, not to be used as a 'toy' to follow some 'Holy Bible' of utter crap dreamed up by people who would impose their values on the rest of us, no matter what.

:notworthy
I love it!
A quote that should live in infamy.

And I agree 100% :iagree

Every job is different and has its own unique problems as well as Super Foreman's.
Ya know, the ones who think they can run beside you and control the machine.
I've got a way with dealing with them kind of people....but thats for another thread.
Like I said above, every job is different and you need to go about it differently to get the desired results.
Now what works for me might not work for you and visa versa.

One thing that I have learned in 30 years of operating all kinds of equipment is that those who claim to be experts, aren't.
Those who believe that they know it all, don't.
Those who think that they are so much better than anybody and everybody else....do infarct suck big time.

I never claim to be good at anything.
I let my actions speak for me.
I just do the best that I can 90% of the time.
The other 10% of the time, my performance is based on how I am treated by a particular foreman.
If he treats me lass than, I give him less than...
Most of them catch on rather quickly..
Some don't.
They would rather argue like I'm their red headed step child.
I won't argue with him.
I'll just hand him my ticket book and with a big smile I'll say," I don't want you feel like I'm wasting any more of your money so if you'll kindly sign my rental ticket I'll be on my way. Hopefully you'll find someone that better suits your demands and needs"
End of story....
The smiling part is what really irritates them.

In this kind of trade, a good operator is always learning something new.
He is always willing to take on criticism, take chances, learn from his mistakes as well as others mistakes and most of all, he is willing to adapt to the always changing jobs and machinery.
A good operator never knows everything because there is still so much more to learn.

joedirt · Dec 25, 2007

Backdragging

I certainly don't want to add fuel to the fire but here's my 2 cents. I'll take responsibility for Push Kids attitude towards BDing. Often times we will get a new hire candidate who is Gods gift to dozers. Put him in the machine and it's a different story.

Every pass made is followed up by BDing the blade due to the fact there is a new roller coaster in town (up, down, up, down). That being said, its sort of a tool we use as to keep operators focused on making a quality pass from the start without relying on the BD technique. Possibly another example I could use is using your mirrors.

I know lowboys are certainly different than dozers but another comparison would be wether to look out the back window as opposed to using your mirrors. Often times it is necessary to look out the rear window when backing, but become reliant on this may present troubles down the road. In my opinion learn how to use the mirrors first or make sure your "push passes" count.

I don't want to cram words into PK's mouth but knowing and working with him I wouldn't interrupt his "ban on backdragging" any more than only use it when necessary. As it has been mentioned in several other posts, all jobs are different. On occasion our prints will read "track walk slopes with a 40k to 50k pound crawler tractor. I'm with you on this one Lash. I wish it would read "aimlessly track walk slopes throwing about 2k to 5k dollars of undercarriage wear away for no reason". At least I would feel better about what were doing.

It is always interesting for me to see the opinions across the board. I know for me, sometimes I get stuck in thinking "this is the way we do it here, it must be the same everywhere else." Not always the case. Thanks for the input..... Joe :usa

Deas Plant · Dec 25, 2007

Reduction of air pollution.

Hi, Joe Dirt.
Thanks for clearing the air on those issues. (Hence the title of this post.)

I have for quite a while advocated that people not talk/write in 'absolutes', especially on forums such as this. What works or is standard practice with one company or in one area may well be frowned upon in another situation. There is quite likely to be someone around who not only can but will blow your 'absolute' statement right out of the water. Maybe you would like to point this out to PK84.

Best wishes for a merry Christmas and a happy and properous new year.

LDK · Dec 25, 2007

Deas Plant said:
Hi, LDK.
I'm with you. I can't feel if there are only a few pebbles or small clods on the blade of a D11 either. And I usually only KNOW that I have started a light cut with one if I use my eyes. Does that make me 'insensitive'? How-wevver, I DON'T feel 'inadikwit' about it. If the 'wannabe experts' don't like it or feel that they may be in some way superior to me because of it, I am sure in my own mind that THEY are the ones with the problems. You see, they still have to live long enough to have operated for as long as I have and get their butts on as many machines as I have to be able to claim the breadth of experience that I can claim and do the numbers of different types of work that I have done to be able to lay claim to that too.

You have a wonderful festive season, Mate.

Deas, have a good one yourself and all the best for the coming year.
I kinda knew we would be at the least in the same book store. I have a very low tollerance level for some of the stuff they try and feed us.

digger242j · Dec 25, 2007

Best wishes for a merry Christmas and a happy and properous new year.

Peace on earth, and good will towards dozer operators, whether they backdrag or not...

EZ TRBO · Dec 25, 2007

This is an interesting topic, well sub topic of the main topic of "Young One's" new dozer. As Dea has said about backdragging material off a pile, I have seen my dad and uncle(35 and 50+ years experience) do just that many times. No harm no foul. I understand that in working around a mininning or quarring enviroment that back dragging large rocks is not a good thing(guy did that at work and somehow someway it got under the machine or in the front grill and has the radiator pushed back so we can only turn the fan blades one way). I myself am not the greatest dozer man and once and a while, depending on the type of material I am in, get the "whoops" and somtimes I'll just kinda back float the blade to fill it in a bit then in my next two passes or so work on getting it back smooth again. A few years ago we were on a large waterway project and the main waterway was over 2000 feet long with a 60 foot bottom to it. I was going ahead knocking off the high spots and filling in the washouts while my uncle was doing the finish behind me. We both were getting "whoops" cause some of the dirt was washed in, some was virgin(so loose than hard). It just took a bit more time and we got it. As far as weather to BD or Not to BD, if you can do it in an efficient manner and do so without harming the machine than go for it. Once again, just my 2 cents.
Trbo

385Diggin' Doug · Dec 25, 2007

RollOver Pete said:
:notworthy
I love it!
A quote that should live in infamy.

And I agree 100% :iagree

Every job is different and has its own unique problems as well as Super Foreman's.
Ya know, the ones who think they can run beside you and control the machine.
I've got a way with dealing with them kind of people....but thats for another thread.
Like I said above, every job is different and you need to go about it differently to get the desired results.
Now what works for me might not work for you and visa versa.

One thing that I have learned in 30 years of operating all kinds of equipment is that those who claim to be experts, aren't.
Those who believe that they know it all, don't.
Those who think that they are so much better than anybody and everybody else....do infarct suck big time.

I never claim to be good at anything.
I let my actions speak for me.
I just do the best that I can 90% of the time.
The other 10% of the time, my performance is based on how I am treated by a particular foreman.
If he treats me lass than, I give him less than...
Most of them catch on rather quickly..
Some don't.
They would rather argue like I'm their red headed step child.
I won't argue with him.
I'll just hand him my ticket book and with a big smile I'll say," I don't want you feel like I'm wasting any more of your money so if you'll kindly sign my rental ticket I'll be on my way. Hopefully you'll find someone that better suits your demands and needs"
End of story....
The smiling part is what really irritates them.

In this kind of trade, a good operator is always learning something new.
He is always willing to take on criticism, take chances, learn from his mistakes as well as others mistakes and most of all, he is willing to adapt to the always changing jobs and machinery.
A good operator never knows everything because there is still so much more to learn.

You are right on target ROP.I feel and carry myself the same way !:drinkup This is the exact point I was trying to make before.An open mind with a closed mouth is a very valuable tool.The highest production at the highest level of quality and safety with minimal damaging effects is what us or any Super is after.There will always be a different way to do something and there will always be a new thing to learn.Nice to see that common sense has prevailed.

IUOE 825 : :usa

Dozerboy · Dec 25, 2007

:beatsme What are you guys talking about??? Bah-Humbug

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