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Bobcat Grader Laser Help

Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
22
Location
Bellingham, WA
Occupation
President - Skid Steer Solutions
Hi guys. I just purchased a Bobcat grader so that I can dissect the wiring and create kits that will allow you to operate it on any brand of machine. Here is my issue. I do not know a thing about the lasers. Can anyone recommend a laser package to add to this so that I can see if I can get it to run without a Bobcat being attached. I would love one of you gurus to step in and help guide me through this as so many people have had the same issue, I felt it was time to step in and correct the problem. I think I will have a harness that allows you to operate the grader on any machine with 6 buttons within an hour.

I have created a controller that will manage all of the other brands that do not including Cat/ASV and Terex. The issue will be the lasers. I would love to be able to get them operating outside of the Bobcat controls and so would many others.

Rob
 

KSSS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
4,321
Location
Idaho
Occupation
excavation
Typically these systems have their own control boxes that comes with the laser systems. I have an Apache/Spectra system with Plus 5 readers on a dual slope box blade. The control box that handles the input is an Apache (CB52) and either mounts in the machine or on the attachment. The cool thing with Bobcat system is the OEM screen in the machine is compatible with laser system which is Trimble I believe. Everyone else will have to have an aftermarket control box provided by their laser OEM. If someone already has a laser ready grader attachment from Bobcat, than you have the valves and will need to interface those with a control box, if I am right and the components are Trimble than adding a Trimble control box would seem to make the most sense.

I bought the BC 96" grader attachment without the BC laser package. If I want to laser it and I will, I just have to put the valving on the attachment like I did with my box blade. I already have the readers and the control box.

I don't know that there is much benefit for you in getting into the laser control portion of the grader, since anyone that opts to do that will need to have the laser controls tailored to their machine with the appropriate control box that interfaces with their system.

The laser compatibility issue is not hard to solve. If you are able to solve the issue of getting the grader to plug and play into different machines is more difficult at least on this end to solve. The pigtail I got from you helped but did not solve the problem, the ends were not compatible and there was still other issues to solve. So if you have this portioned ironed out for the different machines (with the different handle options, which was part of my issue), than you have fixed the larger problem. The laser OEMs have the other portion taken care of.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
22
Location
Bellingham, WA
Occupation
President - Skid Steer Solutions
That is strange. My grader just arrived and I plugged one of my harnesses right in. How old is your grader? This one is supposed to be the current model. As for the laser, this grader had one connected but they removed it when they sold it. I am just perplexed at how it interfaces. Is it using Canbus to the laser controller or does it mount afterwards and pigtail into the solenoids?
 

KSSS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
4,321
Location
Idaho
Occupation
excavation
That is strange. My grader just arrived and I plugged one of my harnesses right in. How old is your grader? This one is supposed to be the current model. As for the laser, this grader had one connected but they removed it when they sold it. I am just perplexed at how it interfaces. Is it using Canbus to the laser controller or does it mount afterwards and pigtail into the solenoids?

Mine was new but with some demo time on it, it is the latest design and was less than a year old, but that is not to say that some electronic changes have not been on going, but mine was not plug and play. Is your goal to utilize the BC laser system on the attachment and interface that with a control box that you build and provide that can go into any machine?
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
22
Location
Bellingham, WA
Occupation
President - Skid Steer Solutions
I would like to identify a laser that will work, set it up and then publish it for everyone. This will actually help Bobcat even though their suits don't think so. There are a ton of people out there that want that grader but don't own Bobcat's. BC thinks they should just sell their machines and buy a BC. That's BS. Just make it so everyone can use it and you will end up ahead. They don't see it that way. Here is a photo of my harness plugging into the BC grader.

Grader.jpg
 

TriHonu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
139
Location
Minnesota, USA
Do the newer grader attachments use proportional valves?

I have one of the first models made by Palm for Bobcat. It has standard (bang bang) valves. When I checked on adding a laser many years ago, I was told it could be done, but to make it operate smoothly and stay on grade took an external interface that was adjustable and could be tuned to the performance of the valve. The cost for that system was quite a bit more than I paid for the grader.
 

KSSS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
4,321
Location
Idaho
Occupation
excavation
Yea those blue connectors on the harness did not plug into the attachment on mine.

Trihonu: The valves they have now are proportional and work really well. The ones I have on my box blade are Dan Foss.

Rod: I don't have the specifics on making it work but I had Western States Cat in Boise put my box blade together. They are very knowledgeable. I believe that putting a laser on the BC attachment is pretty straightforward, no different than putting grade control on any other piece of equipment. If your interested, I can give you the contact info from the guys in Boise.
 

TriHonu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
139
Location
Minnesota, USA
Slightly off topic question, If I powered my standard valves with a Pulse Width Modulator (PWM) could I slowly/partially open the valve without damaging the coils?

12V PWM modules are really inexpensive these days.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
22
Location
Bellingham, WA
Occupation
President - Skid Steer Solutions
Bobcat Grader Day 2

I don't know the answer to that.

Here is what I found out today - The hard way.

It looks like the coils use PWM for activation. Whenever I am troubleshooting equipment I use a small battery pack that I set up with the same plugs as the coils on the attachment. I connect no electrical to the machine. I only run the hydraulics, then I power each coil.

In this case as soon as I powered the first coil with 12 volts, I smoked it. I grabbed my meter to see if the voltage was wrong but out of the Bobcat controller I could see 12 Volts, but my meter indicated a pulse. I swapped out the coils and added my own Hydraforce 12 Volt coils that I use in my attachments. They worked fine. I went back and retested the Bobcat coils to see if I could get them to fire, but nothing.

This explains a lot. I had a customer buy a harness for the grader. He plugged it in and found the coils not working. He replaced them with some surplus coils and everything worked. Both of us just thought his coils were bad. I looks like I will have to replace the BC coils to be able to run on other machines. Does anyone know if the laser controllers use PWM or just 12V on/off to adjust the grader?
 

Construct'O

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
928
Location
SW Iowa
Occupation
Dozerwork,tiling plus many more!!!!!!!
I have an older Laser Alignment control box that i used for corrections on my Bobcat box blade.It is and external control box.The Bobcat attachment had all the modular on it and everything has to run through.Bobcat thing as you know.You couldn't run the box blade manually even the way they had the hydraulic lines run.So i put tees in the lines to bypass hydraulic laser control valve,so i could run the attachment manual to do rough grade correction.

Then i went back and connected my laser control box cable to the coils on the Bobcat hydraulic valve which was Hydraforce valve.Doing away with all the Bobcat junk ,since i don't ever plan on having a Bobcat CTL.My control box actually has coarse and fine position toggle switch with so that you can use a pulse valve.Never toasted any coils and worked fine.

I'm with you why they don't make things universal for other brands to use.Like the old hydraulic coupler ends days.Can't sell attachments if they won't work on other guys machine even tho it's not Bobcat.Not everyone wants Bobcat.Thu!
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
22
Location
Bellingham, WA
Occupation
President - Skid Steer Solutions
Day 3:

The reason I smoked it is because the older units use coils that are diode protected in one direction so of course I reverse polarized it and fried the first one. I swapped all of them out for ones with Zener diodes and all is good. I am talking to a Bobcat dealer about a laser but I guess I should not buy one meant for Bobcat so I am back to this question. Does anyone have a brand name and model of a laser system that I can install that is independent of the Bobcat?
 

Construct'O

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
928
Location
SW Iowa
Occupation
Dozerwork,tiling plus many more!!!!!!!
Bobcat laser system is basicly a Trimble laser system branded Bobcat.So other option is Trimble,or like mention above Apache,which again is a spin off of Trimble.

Then there is Topcon and another outfit AGL in Arkanasa that make laser equipment.Also there is Leica system.Leica actually bought out Laser Alignment (which had great laser for there time). They was built under the LB1,single grade and LB4 for dual grade models.New models now go under Rugby.

Laser on bigger machine are getting replaced with GPS system so they can do 3D slope jobs.Basicly you can only do 2D jobs with laser setup.Still a lot of work for laser ,but there is getting less all the time mainly on bigger machine and jobs.Good luck
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
22
Location
Bellingham, WA
Occupation
President - Skid Steer Solutions
Day 3

Day 3:

Day 3. Turns out this model was built in 2002 and the solenoids used a single diode. If you reverse polarize the input, it smokes the coil. I changed them out for solenoids with Zeners and all is good. I have it working with one of our Genius Harnesses on on any 14 Pin. 8 Pin won't work but I am working on a Super Controller that will work with anything.
 
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