JoeMopar
Member
Ok. Checking and couldn't really tell from small picture. My son has a couple of Case Terra Loaders out in Co. and searching for some parts. Just thought I'd ask.
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Some old TD-18 pics from my Army days.
- Thread starter RonG
- Start date
Ron: Some more little tidbits for you. The M113 was modified again in the late 80's. New engine and they moved the fuel cells outside. The engine/tranny update was because the M113 couldn't keep up with the M1 tank. The fuel cell was crew survivability.
The extensions on the back above the tracks are the external fuel tanks. Still using a Detroit but not the screamer. There are about 13,000 of them still being used. Medics, combat engineers and OPFOR were the ones with them when I retired in 96. You posted a picture of an M48 and said you didn't know the MOS. Back in your day it was 11E. You had 11B Infantry, 11C Mortars, 11D Scouts and 11E Armor crewman. When they adopted the M1 they created career management field (CMF) 19. 19D Scouts, 19E M60 tanker and 19K M1 tanker. OPFOR is opposing forces. They use the M551 and the M113 as their armored vehicles with fiberglass add on's to make them look like Russian tanks and PC's.
Someone ask about how the Army got rid of stuff way back in the thread. With the exception of tanks and BFV's they are most often, even way back then, sent to property disposal. PDO then auctions them off wherever they are at. They can't get enough out of an old, often not running, with worn out track systems/undercarriages dozers for enough to pay to ship them back to the states. Most of the ones in Germany became Liebhier equipment
! Joking but most were turned into scrap. Armored vehicles on the other hand are cut up for scrap (never sold as complete/sometimes contrated out) or refurbished and passed on/sold to the National Guard, police or friendly foreign governments. On things like the M1's with the thermal sights and computerized fire control system on the ones sold are degraded and not to the same standards of the ones we keep. Now things were a little different during the drawdowns of the 90's. A lot of stuff no longer needed was sold through PDO that was in pretty good condition. But we cut the Army by 1/2 so there was much more than we needed for the size we were left with. That's why Afghanistan and Iraq cost so much. When they increased the size of the military from 400K to about 550K all that stuff, trucks, engineer equipment, aircraft and such had to be bought new. Stuff like weapons were stored but the equipment had to be replaced.
Rick
The extensions on the back above the tracks are the external fuel tanks. Still using a Detroit but not the screamer. There are about 13,000 of them still being used. Medics, combat engineers and OPFOR were the ones with them when I retired in 96. You posted a picture of an M48 and said you didn't know the MOS. Back in your day it was 11E. You had 11B Infantry, 11C Mortars, 11D Scouts and 11E Armor crewman. When they adopted the M1 they created career management field (CMF) 19. 19D Scouts, 19E M60 tanker and 19K M1 tanker. OPFOR is opposing forces. They use the M551 and the M113 as their armored vehicles with fiberglass add on's to make them look like Russian tanks and PC's.
Someone ask about how the Army got rid of stuff way back in the thread. With the exception of tanks and BFV's they are most often, even way back then, sent to property disposal. PDO then auctions them off wherever they are at. They can't get enough out of an old, often not running, with worn out track systems/undercarriages dozers for enough to pay to ship them back to the states. Most of the ones in Germany became Liebhier equipment
! Joking but most were turned into scrap. Armored vehicles on the other hand are cut up for scrap (never sold as complete/sometimes contrated out) or refurbished and passed on/sold to the National Guard, police or friendly foreign governments. On things like the M1's with the thermal sights and computerized fire control system on the ones sold are degraded and not to the same standards of the ones we keep. Now things were a little different during the drawdowns of the 90's. A lot of stuff no longer needed was sold through PDO that was in pretty good condition. But we cut the Army by 1/2 so there was much more than we needed for the size we were left with. That's why Afghanistan and Iraq cost so much. When they increased the size of the military from 400K to about 550K all that stuff, trucks, engineer equipment, aircraft and such had to be bought new. Stuff like weapons were stored but the equipment had to be replaced.Rick
RonG
Charter Member
What a lot of good info Rick,thanks.I just surmised that the new engine in the M113 was a 6V53 Detroit and I used to talk to an engineer or at least read his posts on the Allpar.com site as I am a Mopar nut too and this particular poster was an engineer who helped design and test military equipment and the M113 was one of his babies.He used to post in detail about it and had enough to say about its configuration that I was pretty sure that that was what it had for power.When I left it was only a couple of years old and as far as I knew they were still being shipped with the 413 Chrysler engine.That M1 with the turbine has got to be the a real bear if the M113 could not keep up with it.The M60 was replacing the M48 while I was there and was the first tank with diesel capability and am pretty sure one of the first "Multi-Fuel engines.I have quite a few pics of the armored vehicles too.Ron G
Thanks for all your great pictures! I would have loved to do some of those things you did. Pulling the 18 with the Continental powered 5 ton must have been fun and you didn't have to worry about the 2-3 MPG that it was getting!
I have had so much fun with my old TD18 that I save from the Chinese smelter!
I have had so much fun with my old TD18 that I save from the Chinese smelter!
Attachments
RonG: The Army got rid of the multifuel engines in the late 80's in everything. The purchase of the HMMV sealed their fate. Now everything except aircraft burns diesel. The Army did buy new pickups outfitted with tactical lighting in the 70's. They got the Dodge Power Wagons, 318 auto full time 4X4. They were so much trouble that they replaced them with 6.2 diesel Chevy's in the early 80's. That's uncommon because the Army gets something it's normally in the inventory forever.
The 113's with the 1st Detroit's would run about 40 MPH. Faster than the M48's and M60's. The M1's are governed DOWN to 45 MPH. The M113 PC, 577 (command version of the 113) M109 and M110 howitzers couldn't keep up with the tanks. So the 113/577's got new engines along with the upgraded Paladin (M109) while the M110 was replaced with the MLRS (multiple launch rocket system: surface to surface ballistic missile).
Increasing the speed of the tank from 32 MPH to 45 cut track life in half. And faster cuts it by half again. At 60 on flat dry pavement the tracks last less than 1,000 miles. At 70 they fly off. Last time I knew of the price of tank tracks they were about 30K a set and that was years ago. As it is track life went from @ 32MPH 5,000 miles to @45 2,500 miles. Generally in a peace time military it takes a long time to wear out a set of tracks. I can only remember once of twice seeing an M60 get new tracks. With the M1 someone was always getting new track.
The Army also dumped the deuce and a half in the early 90's. They had just gone over to a new 5 ton. With the drawdown and 50% of the units going away they had all these old 2 1/2 tons and nearly enough new 5 tons to replace them. So the deuce and a half went away and were replace with the 5 ton. Before the deuce went away, as they went bad the multi fuel engine was being replaced with a turbo diesel called the clean air engine.
Right now the Army is replacing the M2 browning .50cal. The new gun is still the same design but has a quick change barrel that doesn't need the head space and timing set!
Rick
The 113's with the 1st Detroit's would run about 40 MPH. Faster than the M48's and M60's. The M1's are governed DOWN to 45 MPH. The M113 PC, 577 (command version of the 113) M109 and M110 howitzers couldn't keep up with the tanks. So the 113/577's got new engines along with the upgraded Paladin (M109) while the M110 was replaced with the MLRS (multiple launch rocket system: surface to surface ballistic missile).
Increasing the speed of the tank from 32 MPH to 45 cut track life in half. And faster cuts it by half again. At 60 on flat dry pavement the tracks last less than 1,000 miles. At 70 they fly off. Last time I knew of the price of tank tracks they were about 30K a set and that was years ago. As it is track life went from @ 32MPH 5,000 miles to @45 2,500 miles. Generally in a peace time military it takes a long time to wear out a set of tracks. I can only remember once of twice seeing an M60 get new tracks. With the M1 someone was always getting new track.
The Army also dumped the deuce and a half in the early 90's. They had just gone over to a new 5 ton. With the drawdown and 50% of the units going away they had all these old 2 1/2 tons and nearly enough new 5 tons to replace them. So the deuce and a half went away and were replace with the 5 ton. Before the deuce went away, as they went bad the multi fuel engine was being replaced with a turbo diesel called the clean air engine.
Right now the Army is replacing the M2 browning .50cal. The new gun is still the same design but has a quick change barrel that doesn't need the head space and timing set!
Rick
RonG
Charter Member
Wow,I'll bet I could still set up the .50 caliber in the dark.Thanks for the info.Ron G
Yea me too. Head space and timing was easy to me.
The new tanks don't have a search light. They have a thermal imaging sight. It see through the dark, the rain, the snow and the fog. That's coupled to a ballistic computer that takes into effect the angle the tank is at, ground speed, cross wind and outside temp. Plus the range and speed of the target to come up with a firing solution in1/100th of a second. No stopping to fire either. Chance of a first round hit is 98%. The 2% error is crew error. Tanks are a lot different than they were.
The construction engineering equipment is just newer. They did buy the ACE (armored combat earthmover) in the very late 80's and some other better stuff for the combat engineer side.
Pretty sure the CEV is gone but the AVLB is up dated
Rick
RonG
Charter Member
Just got to comment,I was looking around yesterday and it turns out that the Browning .50 calibre machine gun that we used in the military is the same one being used today.Wikipedia has a nice write up on it but that machine gun was developed back in the early '30s.Thanks to Mr.Browning.Ron G
Nope, sorry, it's not. They are in the process of fielding the new one. Looks pretty much the same but has a quick change barrel and they no longer have to set head space and timing. My son is currently Army Nation Guard, Infantry. His unit has already transitioned. According to what he says it's pretty much the same gun except for the barrel mounting system.
Rick