Anyone work with other excavators?

Hey guys,
I'm trying to stick it out as a one man band, but get thrown some things by some good customers that are simply too much for me to handle as a owner operator. Have any of you worked with another company to get a job done, and what kind of ups and downs did you have?

Personally, I never liked the idea of teaming up with someone else to get the job done. Not that we haven't done it, I just never liked it. It's always been easy enough to rent equipment & scab together a crew.

One problem is that I didn't want people driving by one of my sites and see trucks and equipment with someone else's name on it, another problem is that I didn't want anyone from another company interacting with my customers. Next thing you know, the company that's helping you is now bidding on your customers next project.

If you're starting to get other jobs offered to you that you aren't big enough to handle, I'd consider it a sign from above that it's time to outgrow your "one man band" status.

Roan

Well said Roan

Thanks Roan,
Confirmation of what I guess I already knew in my heart

I'm not in the position of making decisions like that anymore. Currently, working as a freelance estimator , I have the opportunity to work with dozens of excavators, some quite closely.

Converse to my original post, I advise all my clients that when a larger company comes knocking at your door and looking for a few pieces of operated iron or a pipe crew, by all means jump on it. That is of course if you can do the work within their cost framework, which most of the time is negotiable, depending on how far behind schedule they are.

You make your rate, and assume none of the risk or project management. And most fun of all, if you hit rock, it's on someone else.

"If you hit rock , it's on someone else." That's not the case here anymore. Last few municipal jobs I've bid do not allow a rock clause. So maybe it's on the general contractor, or owner up that way. Bidding this type job is not to bad , read everything on the prints.

We're talking about two different things. I had implied that when you are working under another excavator's " umbrella " , subcontracted to them, when you hit rock, it's on the excavator who hired you. Unless they would ask for a unit # up front for rock. ( which I have never seen , nor would I be foolish enough to commit to )

I bid municipal/ public jobs every week, 52 weeks a year . Every municipality or public entity is different as to how they deal with rock. I find that about 80 % of the jobs I bid are now unclassified. And, most of these jobs offer little or no sub surface information on which to base your number.

The " prints" rarely have anything to do with rock. ( at least up here ) The bid form and the spec book is where the evil lies.

When you're bidding a two million dollar water line projects, unclassified, it sure makes for a sleepless nights before bid day !

OK, cause I don't know, WTF is a rock clause?

Rick

If you hit huge boulders or other unknown obstructions such as foundations from an old foundry or whatever, usually must be over a minimum size specified. It is removed on a T & M basic, usually at a predetermined equipment rate. Sometimes called an obstruction clause. Nice when a contractor can get it but see them less and less. Couple years age we hit a rock that took two big hoes and a D7 just to roll it into the hole we dug to bury it. No rock clause on that one.

Hey Rick, I would define a rock clause as a contractual provision for a pre-determined course of action in the event that you hit rock. Many times further defined as boulders/ bulk rock/ ripable rock/ bed rock drill & shoot/ trench rock/ mechanical breaking.

Clauses aren't really a part of public bidding, the manner or nature of the excavation is simply spelled out in the spec book as being classified or unclassified. Many times I've signed proposals or contracts for private work where rock is just simply excluded, and to be dealt with as a t & m issue. If the owner has gone to the lengths of obtaining a geo-tech report, I'm more than happy to interpret it & offer up front pricing for each type of rock I think I'll encounter. But it seems I deal with a lot more jobs that don't have a geo-tech report than do.

I refuse to bid jobs if there is not a rock clause and I exclude all rock excavation in my bids to GC's. If the owner or GC wants me to assume all liability for what's underground, then I will not be the lowest bid - guaranteed, hence the reason why I don't waste my time bidding these projects.:cool2

Sometimes if the geo shows rock, the GC or owner will ask for a CY number for trench and mass rock.

CM1995 said:

I refuse to bid jobs if there is not a rock clause and I exclude all rock excavation in my bids to GC's. If the owner or GC wants me to assume all liability for what's underground, then I will not be the lowest bid - guaranteed, hence the reason why I don't waste my time bidding these projects.:cool2

Sometimes if the geo shows rock, the GC or owner will ask for a CY number for trench and mass rock.

Click to expand...

10-4! I even have a rock clause in my residential contracts....and its in bold lettering.

Back to the one man band thing. Growing pains suck! Your at a point that you decide. Go bigger, or keep it to a manageable size and pick and choose. #1 What could make your band more efficient? Efficiently is key! #2 sub out your larger volume trucking. Looks like you have established your niche, maximize on that. Finding good help is about impossible these days... the best thing that has worked for me is labor trades with other small show operators that i'm friends with (a different topic all by itself). A experienced old timer looking for beer money and something to do will work on the right job also. The equipment thing is easy, if you have the demand. Especially for the extended future.

It might be for the best, might be for the worst, but I know 2 guys, one a landscape maintenance company, the other a landscape / hardscape installer, neither own equipment, and both are smaller outfits looking for someone to fill in the gaps. They already both work with each other, and have respected boundaries and grown together, separately. I was with them on 2 jobs in the past 2 weeks, both went well, and it seems that it could be a workable arrangement.
In the meantime, with my clearing work, and their landscape cleanup work, I saw fit to buy a small tub grinder on municibid. I'm going to start a small mulch business to keep my disposal dollars in my own pocket, and hopefully either get enough volume that I can hire someone who can run a tub / deliver and sub in on jobs, or at a minimum, keep myself busy during the late winter prepping mulch and compost materials for spring.
Yeah, Doyle, this growing pain stuff stinks! My biggest fear is not being able to offer an employee a consistent income, and thats not fair to them or their family.