Cat air conditioning

barklee · Apr 23, 2013

Well its starting to get warm out and the ac isnt working, just like you would expect.

I wanted to see if there were some basic trouble shooting things i could do to get this working without taking it to the dealer. It does blow air but its warm. I was thinking of recharging it but dont want to waste the time or money if theres a way to test first. I dont have any jobs for the machine at the moment but it does get used around the shop an hour or two every week so it would be nice not to roast in the mean time.

The machine is a 2009 Cat 246C

Thanks

eric12 · Apr 24, 2013

you can start by trying to hand turn the ac compressor clutch and seeing if it turns freely and with little resistance. then with the machine running have someone switch the ac on and see if it kicks the compressor on. if you can move it by hand and better yet it turns by its self then you could buy a can or 2 of refrigerant and add it and hope it works. if not your going to need someone who has gauges to see whats happening inside. sounds like its just low but could be more than that.

Phill · Apr 24, 2013

checl the condensor first, make sure hte fins are clean, to allow proper condensing of the refigerant. When you recharge it, make sure you put the correct amount in, i have heard that over charging can do damage

acjerry · Apr 24, 2013

You can check a few things first: 1) Make sure you have power going to the compressor - if not check the circuit to see where you lose power. If it is at a pressure switch, it may mean that you are low on refrigerant. You also want to check on the ground side of the compressor circuit, since Cat sometimes puts the thermostat on the ground side of he circuit. 2) Make sure the belt is on, tight and in good condition. Slipping belts will fail a compressor quicker than anything. 3) If you are recharging the system, do it correctly. Many of the skid steers are made with very low charge weights (less than 2 pounds) and overcharging can do some serious damage. If you do need to recharge, there is a leak - have a pro check it out. You shouldn't need to go to the dealer, you can likely find a local guy that does farm and heavy equipment that can handle the job for a reasonable price.

Good luck.

barklee · Apr 24, 2013

acjerry said:
You can check a few things first: 1) Make sure you have power going to the compressor - if not check the circuit to see where you lose power. If it is at a pressure switch, it may mean that you are low on refrigerant. You also want to check on the ground side of the compressor circuit, since Cat sometimes puts the thermostat on the ground side of he circuit. 2) Make sure the belt is on, tight and in good condition. Slipping belts will fail a compressor quicker than anything. 3) If you are recharging the system, do it correctly. Many of the skid steers are made with very low charge weights (less than 2 pounds) and overcharging can do some serious damage. If you do need to recharge, there is a leak - have a pro check it out. You shouldn't need to go to the dealer, you can likely find a local guy that does farm and heavy equipment that can handle the job for a reasonable price.

Good luck.

Thank you very much! I will check into that when it quits raining.

John C. · Apr 24, 2013

I believe the AC compressor is driven by the hydraulics on this machine. When you turn the switch on for AC you will hear the engine pull down some if it is working right.

durallymax · Apr 25, 2013

John C. said:
I believe the AC compressor is driven by the hydraulics on this machine. When you turn the switch on for AC you will hear the engine pull down some if it is working right.

The compressor is belt driven. It has its own belt. (Check that if you didn't OP). Its on the lower left hand side of the motor right behind the plastic cover.

Keep it simple.

1. Check the fuse

Our first 262C would blow the fuse quite a bit, it was a known issue and I believe they were splitting the fans onto their own fuses. not sure if it happened or not though. it should be a 20 amp fuse.

After than just make sure everything is engaging. Most A/C systems have all of the sensors hooked in a series so that when one fails or doesnt see the value that is needed, the compressor cannot kick on. Manually kick on the compressor the compressor if it will not do it on its own. After that you can trace back checking the sensors.

If you have some A/C experience or a buddy who does, have him check the freon and recharge if needed. You can get the weight from CAT. If it has leaked out some, he may recover the stuff and let it sit overnight with nitrogen in it to check for leaks.

Good luck.

Billyd · Sep 1, 2014

289c cat skid steer ac compressor getting hot

I have a 289c cat skid steer. The compressor got hot and locked up. Had it completely redone with new everything. A month later the compressor is starting to get hot again. Is there anything I can do to fix this problem?

acjerry · Sep 2, 2014

Billyd said:
I have a 289c cat skid steer. The compressor got hot and locked up. Had it completely redone with new everything. A month later the compressor is starting to get hot again. Is there anything I can do to fix this problem?

The compressor getting hot can indicate a few things, one that the condenser is not getting enough airflow to cool the refrigerant; two that the system could be over or under charged; three that the belt is not running tight. Easy things to check: make sure that the condenser is clean and you have good airflow. If you can measure it with an anemometer you should get at least 500 to 600 FPM of air velocity, more is better. Check the belt on the compressor - should be tight and not slipping - slipping can be caused by a loose tensioner or liquid getting onto the belt (oil, antifreeze, washer fluid, etc). Once the belt gets a glaze on it it should be replaced with a good quality raw edged belt. The only proper way to check the charge level is to fully recover the system and weigh it out on a digital scale or capture it into a glass recovery/charging cylinder (few and far between now). The proper charge for the 289C is listed as 2.80 lb (2 lb 12.8 oz). Accuracy is important in many of these machines since there is very little lee way - 4 oz one way or the other can be the difference, so charge using scales or a graduated cylinder - not by the number of cans needed or by using the gauges. There may be other causes for the hot compressor, but they will need to be checked out be a field technician with a/c experience. Hope this is of some help.

Jerry

caterpillarmech · Sep 3, 2014

I'd check the condenser fans and fuse first.

Billyd · Sep 3, 2014

acjerry said:
The compressor getting hot can indicate a few things, one that the condenser is not getting enough airflow to cool the refrigerant; two that the system could be over or under charged; three that the belt is not running tight. Easy things to check: make sure that the condenser is clean and you have good airflow. If you can measure it with an anemometer you should get at least 500 to 600 FPM of air velocity, more is better. Check the belt on the compressor - should be tight and not slipping - slipping can be caused by a loose tensioner or liquid getting onto the belt (oil, antifreeze, washer fluid, etc). Once the belt gets a glaze on it it should be replaced with a good quality raw edged belt. The only proper way to check the charge level is to fully recover the system and weigh it out on a digital scale or capture it into a glass recovery/charging cylinder (few and far between now). The proper charge for the 289C is listed as 2.80 lb (2 lb 12.8 oz). Accuracy is important in many of these machines since there is very little lee way - 4 oz one way or the other can be the difference, so charge using scales or a graduated cylinder - not by the number of cans needed or by using the gauges. There may be other causes for the hot compressor, but they will need to be checked out be a field technician with a/c experience. Hope this is of some help.

Jerry

It went out from the factory. This will be the third compressor to be put on. It is burning the stickers off the compressor. It's a 2011 only has 1300 hours and this will be the third time the compressor has been hot. The one that came factory and cat put one on and now I have put one on. But it is still getting hot. The fuses and fans are running fine.

Billyd · Sep 3, 2014

Fuses and fan are fine. Checked both. It's almost like they put the compressor in bad place. Because it can't get any air where it's at. I am thinking about drilling holes in back cover toward the compressor. And mounting an aux. fan to give ventilation. I know that sounds crazy but 600.00 compressors get expensive.

durallymax · Sep 3, 2014

Have you cleaned the condenser? Those get dirty fast and are not easy to get clean on those machines. Could pull up cab and clean evaporator too.

acjerry · Sep 3, 2014

One of the big issues I have been seeing lately is that the multi-flow style condensers (they have the thin ribbon style cross tubes that connect the end headers - the ribbon tubes have small channels extruded in them) are not being replaced following internal compressor failures. An internal failure is one where the compressor itself is locked up due to internal damage that will allow debris to get into the system. The multi-flow condensers cannot be flushed and if there is any debris in them it will compromise the cooling efficiency and will cause early compressor failures.
While the thought of drilling ventilation holes for the compressor is a good idea - it really can't hurt in this case - it shouldn't be necessary. At this point I would recommend having a fresh set of eyes look at the unit (an outside service tech with a good reputation with off road equipment, not necessarily a dealership tech) to just make sure everything got put back together properly. Sometimes the smallest things can be a problem. Since this is an orifice tube and accumulator system, make sure the orifice tube is clean and is the correct one (several different orifice sizes are in use - at least 2 different sizes in Caterpillar). Other than that you have covered all the major components and might need to start looking at some of the less likely failure points in the system. Things like collapsed hose liners, pinched or kinked hoses, damaged accumulators (internally the desiccant bag can rupture or debris can plug the flow tubes) are pretty rare but may need to be looked at.
Sorry I can't suggest much more without seeing the machine, but hopefully we can help point you in the right direction.

Best Regards

Jerry Lemon

PS - $600 is pretty high for this compressor. Aftermarket for the OEM compressor should be about $300 at most. Our full list on this one is $368, and we never sell at full list.

fsmech · Sep 4, 2014

Both condenser fans behind the cab ok? Also with the evaporators under the cab, these fill with dirt very easily.

Billyd · Sep 5, 2014

Thanks for all the help. It's back together now. I guess we will see if all this has fixed it.

Skidoojunky · Sep 6, 2014

What did you actually find wrong?

Billyd · Sep 10, 2014

It blowed a line and was not dried out correct and someone put wrong oil in it. Started from beginning with new compressor and dried it out correct, put correct oil and correct amount in compressor. So far so good. Hope that fixes it.

Billyd · Sep 10, 2014

acjerry said:
One of the big issues I have been seeing lately is that the multi-flow style condensers (they have the thin ribbon style cross tubes that connect the end headers - the ribbon tubes have small channels extruded in them) are not being replaced following internal compressor failures. An internal failure is one where the compressor itself is locked up due to internal damage that will allow debris to get into the system. The multi-flow condensers cannot be flushed and if there is any debris in them it will compromise the cooling efficiency and will cause early compressor failures.
While the thought of drilling ventilation holes for the compressor is a good idea - it really can't hurt in this case - it shouldn't be necessary. At this point I would recommend having a fresh set of eyes look at the unit (an outside service tech with a good reputation with off road equipment, not necessarily a dealership tech) to just make sure everything got put back together properly. Sometimes the smallest things can be a problem. Since this is an orifice tube and accumulator system, make sure the orifice tube is clean and is the correct one (several different orifice sizes are in use - at least 2 different sizes in Caterpillar). Other than that you have covered all the major components and might need to start looking at some of the less likely failure points in the system. Things like collapsed hose liners, pinched or kinked hoses, damaged accumulators (internally the desiccant bag can rupture or debris can plug the flow tubes) are pretty rare but may need to be looked at.
Sorry I can't suggest much more without seeing the machine, but hopefully we can help point you in the right direction.

Best Regards

Jerry Lemon

PS - $600 is pretty high for this compressor. Aftermarket for the OEM compressor should be about $300 at most. Our full list on this one is $368, and we never sell at full list.

Jerry Lemon

That didn't fix my problem. Compressor locked up this morning. Could you call me 931-607-0232. I need to order a new compressor. Thanks Billy Dunlap

Cat air conditioning

barklee

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eric12

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Phill

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acjerry

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barklee

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John C.

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durallymax

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Billyd

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acjerry

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caterpillarmech

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Billyd

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Billyd

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durallymax

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acjerry

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fsmech

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