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Trenching in Deere 200

CraneInnovation

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Jul 24, 2013
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Structural Engineer
Hey guys,

I've been asked to run a JD 200 for a friend who needs to trench a 6' deep water line for about 200'. I've run smaller machines several times and completed several projects involving trenching, grading, demo, etc.

I'm not anticipating that running a bigger machine will be much different, but wanted to check! Anything to watch out for/careful with on a full size machine? I'm definitely far more comfortable with ISO controls, and I would assume a newer rented JD should be switchable in the cab?

I am going to slope the trench per OSHA (and won't be persuaded otherwise on the job!). What is the easiest way to cut a slope as you trench from the end? I was assuming you start out full width then step in, then dig the center down to grade, and just knock down your benches into slopes?

I was planning to put a survey paint mark on the stick at 6' with the bucket flat as a grade marker. Any easier way, other than constantly checking it? Its a pressurized water line, so I think the only gradeability concerns are keeping it at the right depth below the ground (We're up in New England).

Thanks for any pointers!
 

dirtdobber1

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Dec 20, 2011
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87
Location
Oxford MS
Crane,

My 2 cents is simply that you will enjoy the bigger machine more than the smaller one (if the smaller one is a little bobcat type). The hydraulics will be smoother and the machine more controllable when making fine movements, if that makes sense. Of course, a bigger machine is more powerful, heavier, will do more damage when twisting and turning, and be aware of perhaps a different tail swing. A taller machine means you must be aware of power lines. Any machine means you must be cautious of underground utilities.

What size pipe are you laying? And, I suppose you have to go 6 feet deep to avoid freezing (1 foot deep here in Mississippi and you are safe)?
 

Delmer

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Jan 3, 2013
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8,863
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WI
Is 6' the minimum, or what is recommended as the best depth? Even if it's below the frost line, that water can get COLD. What's another 2-3' when you have the right machine there already? You only have to slope the parts that somebody is going to go into. Use a stick to hold the pipe in the corner against the edge of the trench and cover it with dirt with a shovel from the top of the pile.

I've been in the South where the tap water is hot in summer and cold in winter. And they'd only need to go 3' to even out that temp swing. :beatsme
 

CraneInnovation

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Structural Engineer
Thanks for the info, guys!

Dirtdobber1, yeah, I was expecting the controls to be smoother....I've had a bit of seat time in larger machines, and I have to say the the hardest machine to do fine work in was a little New Holland backhoe! I'll make sure I watch the tail swing....We aren't in terribly tight quarters, but its a good reminder. Most of the machines I've run had negligible tailswing.

We are laying 1.25" copper (I believe....someone else is heading up the plumbing) water line on a summer camp property. To Delmer's question about depth....I think 6' will be fine, as the camp is typically closed and winterized during the winter. As long as we avoid freezing, we should be ok.

I think the plumbing guy will be in most of the trench....so I'll do what I can to keep him safe. I saw a guy get partially buried in a trench collapse as a kid, and even though it was only up to his waist, it was clear he was essentially trapped until they dug him out. Scary stuff.
 

CraneInnovation

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Well, we're on for this weekend and they'll be renting a JD 120 instead of the 200 (Hertz doesn't have many 200's available).

Anyone know where I can find a PDF of the operator's manual for a 120C?
 

Colorado Digger

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Dec 3, 2008
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Location
Carbondale,co
A 120 is plenty of machine for a 6' deep trench. I normally start the trench, get down to depth, then shave the banks back to whatever is safe or a 1 to 1. It all depends on the material. If it looks questionable, pull it out. As you dig and shave the bank, all the material will fall down into the bottom of the trench, then you just keep pulling grade. I don't know about New England, but out here we bury water at 8'. At 6' deep, I would even go for it with a big mini, if that's all that was available. An 85 would for sure be plenty and the 120 will be fine. 200' should take a half day. Obviously with a bigger machine it would go quickly. Don't skimp on the bedding, at least 4/10's underneath and 5/10's on top. It should take approx. 33 tons or 2 tandem loads. Don't forget the bare copper down to your stop and waste curb box.

Good Luck, Send us a few fotos.

CD
 
Last edited:

CraneInnovation

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Structural Engineer
Thanks for the input Colorado Digger! I'll definitely take pics!

We might go deeper.....its a girl's summer camp that is winterized so I think that mitigates some of the concern. So you find that just knocking the slopes into the trench and keep yarding it out at grade is faster than digging down as you go? I'll definitely take your word for it as I haven't done a trench this deep before.

I probably wouldn't go with a mini up here as we literally grow rocks in New England....its nothing but rocks/cobbles/boulders unless you're in pure sand. I could definitely do it with a Bobcat E42 or similar....but it would definitely take a while and put a beating on the machine. I'm sure the 120 will rock and roll, though.

Now, when you say 4/10's and 5/10's what are you referring to? I know the camp maintenance guy said he's been hauling sand in to use for bedding. He's heading up the job but feels his skills with a small backhoe are inadequate for a water line, which I totally respect. They were going to hire a contractor (my wife is on the camp board) but I volunteered to do it for free.

You have to twist my arm pretty hard to get me on a machine for a day :D
 

Colorado Digger

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Even in our rock here in Colorado, We will dig some of that stuff with a mini 435/55. For bedding 3-4" underneath and 6" on top. Once you start digging you will see what I mean. Dig the trench and slope as you go. Some guys will put a vertical step in, half way up but that won't work in the rock. Also make sure whoever is putting in the K copper has the right licenses. No reason to hang your sack out there especially for a favor. That's usually when problem happen.

Good Luck.CD
 

CraneInnovation

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Oooh....were you referring to 10ths of a foot? That would make sense.... I guess I've been away from surveying/layout for too long...

I agree with not stepping it. As an engineer by trade, a bench is NOT the same as a slope!

I think he's licensed for the work in Maine, but I'll check. He does all of their facilities work...just doesn't have much earthmoving experience.
 

Colorado Digger

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Do you have to run K Copper? Otherwise you could run pure core or muni-pex in one continuous roll. The copper will come in 40' or 60' rolls giving you quite a few couplers.

Good Luck, CD
 

CraneInnovation

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Got my diggity-dig on!

My day started with the news that Hertz had dropped off a 160 instead of a 120. Very fun! Biggest machine I've run on a job.....pulled levers in a few bigger ones, but no digging. Newer Deere G-series, very easy to run and figure out.

First impression was that, yes.....this machine was much smoother than a mini. Actually took some getting used to...initially felt like she was lagging or sluggish. Wasn't used to being able to lean into the levers a bit without her going haywire.

Second impression was that starting out the digging near existing utilities felt like trying to serve cake with a garden shovel.....broke a few plastic lines (no power or gas underground on the property) but the facilities guy I was working with said he wasn't 100% sure where things were and would rather spend 10 minutes splicing a 1" line than 30 minutes hand digging. I still felt like each break was a failure on my part as an operator, but you can only do so much pawing through 1" plastic lines, I guess. Also had to keep even greater tabs on my boom as I was no longer under the trees!

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Got moving pretty good once I was around the building and away from the nest of plastic tubes!

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First success.....located, dug around, and did not damage the stink pipe!

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At the other building....pawing for water lines again. Houston, we are at maximum pucker.

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Saved the live lines and pulled out a few derelict ones.

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CraneInnovation

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We moved some serious dirt...

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Finishing up the trench from the side....always annoying.

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Get to go back and finish the trench, dig some stumps, and do some road work tomorrow! We also have a sweet little JD 350 track loader and a JD mini-tractor with loader.

Having fun!!!!
 

CraneInnovation

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Another day of fun! Time to put it all back again... I tried compacting it as best I could.

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This was the awesome little track loader the maintenance guy had....a JD 350C.

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They had me go up the dirt road a ways to put a ditch in where the road met a neighbor's driveway. They were wide-eyed when I rolled into their driveway with a 16 ton machine, but had no problems with us getting the work done. We knocked a few trees over to put the ditch in.

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This machine had a good rotating wrist and I found that turning the bucket sideways made a nice trowel to shape the little ditch.

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The run back to camp would rattle your brains out!

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CraneInnovation

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A few more pictures as we were finishing up.

The 160G. I loved this thing.

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Paul was stacking extra fill:

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A few inches of gravel and you wouldn't know we were here!

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A fun weekend with some good toys!

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bhtn

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Dec 10, 2009
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Location
West Tennessee
Thanks for taking the time to post all the commentary along with the pictures. We really like our 120C Deere. That was definitely some good volunteer work there.
 
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