Track Loaders digging basements

I have dug several basements in the past 10 years or so and while digging one out the other day I thought I wonder if my method is the same as others or do they do it different . The end result being the same , I know to some it don't really matter how you do it as long as its on grade. My method: I strip all topsoil in the area plus the 3' over dig. Basically I put the topsoil in one pile to be used for septic backfill or yard. Then I start cutting one side to the other , first cut along the side all the way to the other opposing wall , then cut a half bucket wide till you reach across to the opposing wall until you get to the wall being perpendicular with the one you started on. Take that medium type soil into another pile , start another cut , cutting about 12 to 15 inches per basically like digging it out in layers. When you get to the hard pan clay put it in yet another pile. If this makes any sense to anybody. Usually it takes me about 16 hours with a 953 to dig a 8'10" deep basement about 1800 square feet. I have had some complaints about it taking too long , but I think its necessary to separate the soil types to prepare for backfill and finish grade. I see a lot of them basically ram out a hole not saving topsoil , doing it in 10 to 12 hours. My thoughts are save what topsoil is there , its cheaper than buying it and hauling it in. I'm not gonna change my way or procedure unless someone replies with a better method , I am open to anything. I wonder if I'd be better off not giving a crap and just ram out a hole like some others. I do know when I backfill , I have pre-planned by putting dirt where I need it while digging the hole , its faster then. Pay me now or pay me later type thing.

Dickjr, it looks like you have a good method of digging basements. Always save the topsoil and separate it, as you said it's expensive to haul in. Don't know about your area but a 18CY load of topsoil here will run $300-400. 3-4 extra hours with a 953 is $360 to $480 at our rates, a wash if they have enough topsoil and if they need more than one load you're saving them money - if you didn't separate it the cost would come at the back end.

Don't know your soil conditions so no comment on the 2nd strip and stock layer. We have some soil conditions that are not topsoil and not good for structural fill either, running underneath the topsoil layer anywhere from 6-18" deep. Other areas have little topsoil and what's underneath is structural material, just depends on where your digging.

You are doing it right, who is complaining homeowners or builder? Some times you just can't get people to understand a few hundred now can save thousands later.

Our soil varies as well. This particular job has about 14" of nice dark topsoil followed by a lighter color or dirt that is loamy followed by clay that conforms to the bucket when you dump it. I like to backfill with the lighter color and use the hard pan for building drive or backfill garage as long as we have plenty of time to settle. I also like to strip around the house and save that topsoil then when its framed and ready to backfill use the worst soil first then the better soil followed by the topsoil. This helps yards from heating during summer as you probably know. I'll get some pics tomorrow or this. Topsoil in my part of the country is scarce. It has to be trucked 20 miles or more at times.

Your procedure makes sense to me. I always try to save the topsoil whether I'm digging utility trenches with a mini ex or building ponds with a track loader, that stuff is expensive around here to haul in if you waste it. At $30/yd here its about $70 every-time you heap the bucket on a 953. So if you only strip two buckets an hour its paying for the machine time and then some.

On the topic of digging basements I've got a few questions I'd love to throw in. I know we don't usually post prices so are you digging them on an hourly rate, contract price, or $/sq ft? I've pushed a lot of trees, cleaned out lots of ponds and built many more but haven't got the opportunity to dog a basement yet.

Thanks
John

The basement I finished today was a bid job at 2400$. I usually price them at 1$ per square foot and .50c for the walk out but that's going out the window. Probably go up a quarter or more per foot. It's funny how people fuss about spending 2000$ digging a basement , then spend 12,000$ on a counter top. I am getting away from working too cheap , some jobs I know I was to cheap on. At the same time I'm not going to rip anyone off , but I'm getting older and that being said my knowledge should be worth a little as well. Just like saving topsoil , they fuss about spending 4 to 6 hours stripping it , but don't realize it saves them money as it is already onsite.

Thanks for the info. I was using the hourly rate I use as an estimate base against the hours you posted and it wasn't looking real profitable by the time I deducted a trucking bill and fuel. I'd love to try one but haven't got my foot in that door yet and really didn't know how to even price it.

Thanks
John

I had 15.3 hours in the 2400$ basement , so it was somewhat profitable. But I had to put a written bid on it and had I done it by the hour it would have been little over1900$. At any rate they didn't get hurt , I made a little more on the hour and I have a cooler of beer and a 4 o'clock tee time today

Dickjr, what do your charge for mobilization? We're at the same rates for a 953C by the hour.

It was eight miles away so about 100$ to mobilize , no de-mobilization that's on the next guy.

Just curious is that included in your total cost or is that an addition. My trucker charges me $125 per move for anything within about 40 miles and I charge that in addition to whatever work I bill.

John

I included the mobilization , but it was more work then just the basement , cut in drive way install water service , strip topsoil around house. My total bill was pushing 6Gs by the time all was done. Sometime I think I'm to soft on people , but at the same time someone else will do it at cut throat rates.

The 125 is cheap for a inside 40 mile move. I have my own hauling equipment so I can move the minute I decide too, we also always have several jobs going on at any time and are constantly moving something. I would think it costs me at least 125 per move by the time you add all the costs up with trucking equipment. The only thing for us is the convienence of being able to do it right away without waiting on a trucker....I

JD8875 said:

Just curious is that included in your total cost or is that an addition. My trucker charges me $125 per move for anything within about 40 miles and I charge that in addition to whatever work I bill.

John

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If it's hourly work, then the mob is an add on. Bid work the mob is included. I hire out all my mob'ing for now but as JB said, it's becoming a hassle depending on others to move your equipment.

I agree $125 is cheap. I can't own a truck and trailer for that, but it would be handy to move whenever I wanted to. I greatly appreciate you guys and your input, I got into this business knowing very little about the procedural or estimating side of things. Its nice to hear how other people do things and see that I'm on the same track. I started my business with my skid steer but my 953 has made my business.

Thanks guys
John

I bought a tandem dump and trailer to move my 53's. Getting my cdl and driving my rig for the first few times was the same feeling that I got when I first got my license at 16. I love the freedom of being able to move my stuff when I need it moved. The extra maintance and insurance cost is worth every penny.

Most of the builders in this part of the world want all jobs to be hourly rate so they can ride in and put the hurry up on you. Which is one reason I got away from house builder work. Hard to clear any $ at hourly rate.

I think you have a great method of digging your basements and you are extremely fair priced! Most people in This country seem to have lost there mentality when it comes to the proven fact that you get what you pay for!!!! l Most hauling guys want at least 200 to move my 953 no matter how far it is. On top of that other companies are running there 953's clearing and digging basements for $100 an hour on residential work around hear. Haha I'm in business to make money..... I leave my loader sitting before I run it that cheap! I've been waiting and waiting for these other guys to go belly up when they have there first big break down at that price!

Excavator near to me did my road while the Allis was laid up, he charged $150/hr for D6H, I considered that more than fair, asked about a basement dig and was quoted $4800, seemed a little high but with fuel costs I can see the need. I almost wish I had hired him, have hit broken flint with my Allis while digging the hole, will scratch it out but is quite a PITA!!

jca57jd said:

..... I leave my loader sitting before I run it that cheap!

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Couldn't agree more, my 953 won't leave the yard for less than $125 an hour.