Broken bolts changing undercarriage

FarmWrench · Jul 7, 2014

A logger friend has 7 bolts break on 450h rollers on an undercarriage change. Rental shop running 3 450j have had one bust off on the last 3 sets. A diehard Dresser man claims trouble free changes on his td8s and TD 15 e. "Always one" says the Cat guy.

My plan for my first farm dozzer is to get the best machine with the worst undercarriage and do the change myself. $8K for everything on 450h and most times a bad uc sets price back more. (Or am I wrong?)

So why the drastically different bolt breaking? Brand? Installation? Use? Salt? (Logger runs in salt a lot, rental-never)

CM1995 · Jul 7, 2014

Anti-seeze is your best friend when putting on new track pads or other components. Changed out a several sets of pads over the years, used anti-seeze every time and never had a broke bolt.

Now that I have said that, the D5 is coming up for a set of pads..

ointhead

Multiracer · Jul 7, 2014

I could not agree more with what CM1995 has said.
I have found the copper anti seize is far better and longer lasting in the organic environment of off road stuff.
Good luck
Ron

kshansen · Jul 7, 2014

CM1995 said:
Anti-seeze is your best friend when putting on new track pads or other components. Changed out a several sets of pads over the years, used anti-seeze every time and never had a broke bolt.

Now that I have said that, the D5 is coming up for a set of pads..ointhead

CM1995, It's like I have said for years about using the anti-seeze in many applications when asked why bother. I say you should make it easy on the next guy because the next guy just might be you. For you POGO fans it is just a revision of the "We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us."

Deeretracks · Jul 7, 2014

The pads are no big deal. The rock guard and roller bolts can be a pain. It does seem on the 350-650 JD dozers they break pretty easy since they are so small. I have the same issues on D4's also. You get good at welding nuts to the broken ones.

DJK · Jul 7, 2014

Deere dozers and anything case always has broken bolts..when doing u/c only thing I have noticed about the small td's is that there is no where for water to sit because it's a c channel side frames.. Just my observations and experiences.

FarmWrench · Jul 7, 2014

Track rollers was what I asked guys about as it was brought up first. Never a comment about sprocket bolts or segments giving trouble. Cat D4h (early high track with lever steer at the dump) got nothing but hate for breaking the big bolts that held the front idler. Never heard about the back idler.

Copper anti seize is sometimes rated for Stainless steel but not always. On critical stuff I know I will have to deal with years later I run a tap and clean up with air/kerosene(I now will use Ultra low sulfer diesel) and make sure to work the never sieze in really good. It does pay.

Our soils eat all the steel on steel contacts before pads. No one has regretted the $20-40 a pad for new.

CM1995 · Jul 7, 2014

I still have about 1/2 a can of the Cat anti-seeze. Didn't Cat discontinue it? I know they didn't make it, just a branded it but what's the equivalent?

PAcattech · Jul 7, 2014

CM1995 said:
I still have about 1/2 a can of the Cat anti-seeze. Didn't Cat discontinue it? I know they didn't make it, just a branded it but what's the equivalent?

Hi CM1995 , Yep CAT has discontinued most all of its branded maintenance chemicals. tread locks anti-seizes and such but I think you'll find that most if not all dealers sell Loctite brand which is the same stuff. part number for 2.5 lb can is 1615524 8oz is 511447 these are Loctite part numbers . we order them with these part numbers though our parts system . here's a link to CAT / Loctite

http://www.proloctite.com/caterpillar/downloads/cat-global-catalog-na.pdf

CM1995 · Jul 8, 2014

Thanks for the link PAcattech. Loctite has some pretty interesting products.

simonsrplant · Jul 8, 2014

Anti seize for sure, don't forget your old friend the tap! I swear by running a tap through (most) threads in contact or close to dirt. Makes a hell of a difference when re fitting and torquing.

8k bill · Jul 10, 2014

We use stocholme tar for our roller and trac bolts, guaranteed to undo after 20 odd years. Beats any antiseize stuff you buy. Bill.

FarmWrench · Jul 10, 2014

Never thought of tar. I have seen it used only in museum exhibits.

Can you elaborate?
What makes for good pine tar? Where would I FIND it? How do you use it? Heat?

ol' Grump · Jul 10, 2014

Years ago I did some marine work and taking stainless bolts out of aluminum or steel housings resulted in breaking many of the bolts due to corrosion. I'd tried several types of anti seize compounds and finally I tried some RTV silicone gasket maker. Viola, no more broken bolts. Since then almost everything I work on gets the same treatment. .clean and run a tap into the holes, put a dab of RTV in the hole and a dab on the bolt. I've found this works well on crawler undercarriage bolts. .it doesn't let water etc get into the threads so no corrosion takes place. Bolts break loose with about the same effort as it took to tighten 'em.

Bluox · Jul 10, 2014

FarmWrench said:
A logger friend has 7 bolts break on 450h rollers on an undercarriage change. Rental shop running 3 450j have had one bust off on the last 3 sets. A diehard Dresser man claims trouble free changes on his td8s and TD 15 e. "Always one" says the Cat guy.

My plan for my first farm dozzer is to get the best machine with the worst undercarriage and do the change myself. $8K for everything on 450h and most times a bad uc sets price back more. (Or am I wrong?)

So why the drastically different bolt breaking? Brand? Installation? Use? Salt? (Logger runs in salt a lot, rental-never)

Take the swing frames off the tractor ,turn them upside down and use a impact wrench.Makes the job much easyer and if a bolt breaks it can be drilled out.
Good luck
Bob

Scrub Puller · Jul 10, 2014

Yair . . . FarmWrench. 8k bill is exactly right, it is good stuff and can be obtained from a horsy shop or vet supply place.

Bill had the spelling a little wrong. It is "Stockholm" tar as in Stockholm, Sweden which is where the best stuff comes from. It is a pine tar used for preserving timber, ropes, horses hooves and what all and also very good on threads.

Cheers.

Randy88 · Jul 10, 2014

Don't forget to throw the old bolts away and buy new bolts when you installing the new rollers or any undercarriage part, also buy the best bolts you can get, not just something off the shelf out of the local farm store.

g_man · Jul 11, 2014

I bought the same kind a dozer you are looking for. Ended up with a Dresser. I broke 3 rockguard bolts and one roller bolt and had to cut a few rockguard spacers also. Thought I was lucky with just that. I managed to get them all out by welding nuts on as said above and patiently swearing alot. I thought I was used to hard work until I did an u/c with back yard mechanic tools. But it can be done. Good luck.

D6c10K · Jul 11, 2014

Along with buying new bolts make sure you get the correct length bolts. Just long enough to go through the track frame but not much more. If the bolt protrudes an extra inch into the frame then you'll have an inch of rusty end to screw out through the threads next time you have to take them out.

I've been wanting to try some Stockholm tar for a while. Will any brand work? Here's one US supplier that claims to have good stuff....but not inexpensive.
http://tarsmell.com/tar.html

I've got a Jeep bumper rope that I'd like to preserve with it too....

Scrub Puller · Jul 11, 2014

Yair . . . D6c10K.

Along with buying new bolts make sure you get the correct length bolts.

Never were truer words spoken . . . same thing with cutting edge bolts, they should be dressed off just level with the nut.

Things may be different now but grade 8 and better bolts . . . in Australia they used to be generically called 'Cat' bolts . . . were relatively expensive and I never viewed them as "consumables".

As well as a tap run into the holes rock guard and roller bolts were often cleaned up with a die or at least given a mechanical wire brushing.

Cheers.

Broken bolts changing undercarriage

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