Another Perkins Pukes

First of all thanks guys for all the great info. I've been a lurker here for years.

I recently bought at CAT 2008 242B2 with the 2.2 Perkins. I got it cheap as the motor was blown with less then 1000hrs. I ordered a crate perkins and slapped it in and have a great machine.

I finally had the time to tear down the old motor (I have a lot of experience with building motors) and found a fairly serious flaw. The reason my original engine failed was due to the Pistons being installed "180*" off in the bores. The pistons have valve reliefs on one side, unfortunately the valves were on the other side... every piston had marks in the top from the valves barely hitting.

The failure sequence in my motor was the valves obviously taking a minor beating (about .015" divits in pistons) over the ~1000 hrs. Piston number one eventually gave out and lost the push rod and lifter for the ex valve. The lifter dropped, and the mains lost oil pressure. This is where the cylinder one rod seized to the crank and broke.

I wanted to pass this along mostly because I have no idea if the brand new motor I put in was the same. If I had of known I would have pulled the head off and checked/dropped the pan and rotated the pistons/rods.

How can it drop a lifter!?

Great Information

Thanks a much and who would of thought the factory put in the pistons turned 180 deg wrong?

I recently bought at CAT 2008 242B2 with the 2.2 Perkins. I got it cheap as the motor was blown with less then 1000hrs. I ordered a crate perkins and slapped it in and have a great machine.

I finally had the time to tear down the old motor (I have a lot of experience with building motors) and found a fairly serious flaw. The reason my original engine failed was due to the Pistons being installed "180*" off in the bores. The pistons have valve reliefs on one side, unfortunately the valves were on the other side... every piston had marks in the top from the valves barely hitting.

The failure sequence in my motor was the valves obviously taking a minor beating (about .015" divits in pistons) over the ~1000 hrs. Piston number one eventually gave out and lost the push rod and lifter for the ex valve. The lifter dropped, and the mains lost oil pressure. This is where the cylinder one rod seized to the crank and broke.

I wanted to pass this along mostly because I have no idea if the brand new motor I put in was the same. If I had of known I would have pulled the head off and checked/dropped the pan and rotated the pistons/rods.

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Push on the valve hard enough (with the piston) while the lifter is trying to open it.... see what happens. The cam literally ate the lifter and push rod and spit them out in the oil pan. This motor was a mess. See the rod kicked out of the side of the block? imagine what the inside looks like.

Hi, does it seem that the turbo ones give more trouble that non turbo ones? I have a 216 with the 2.2 liter in it with 4100 hrs on the clock, always used a bit of oil but goes ok. Or am I going to get my own set of " leg out of bed " pictures?
I've had it from new to, 250 hr oil changes .

I had a perkins in a posi-track it was the only thing I liked about that machine after it sit in the chook house for 12 months I traded it on a new kobelco excavator,
wish you the best of luck with it Steve

I can add another one to the list, perkins in a little CB22 roller, failed oil pump and starved the gear train of oil. Only 237 hrs, Replaced complete engine under warranty by cat dealer. not immune to skidsters it seems

nzpatch, I don't think whether or not it has a turbo would make a difference, the oil pump cover breaks and it isn't under any undue stress because of the turbo. Either the design was too thin or the method of casting was poor the way they are breaking apart.

I've read this thread off an on for a while but today I got to see first hand the oil pump failure.

I was stopping at our local machine shop, don't tell my boss but I was dropping off the heads for my Harley on company time! Well as I was talking to the owner about some failed engines sitting there he mentioned on was a Perkins. I said I had heard that some Perkins in Cat skid steers have been know to have oil pump failures. He walked across the room and pointed to an engine and said, "There's one right there!" Said it had seized three mains and spun them in the block and alos some rods were damaged. He showed me the oil pump with the end broke out. He's not sure what the guy is going to do.

The management now days try to save a $ here and there that cost them $$$$$$ in the long run, not much integrity left any more .

Just found this thread while looking for a used Block for a 2002 Cat 262 2.9 liter turbo. Looks like I a get to join the crowd. A employee was running the machine at idle when it started knocking and died.

Oil pump sheared off just like in some previous pictures. The connecting rod on #4 cylinder came out the side of block similar to some of the other pictures posted.

I'm unable to locate a used motor or short block so I'm going to try welding up the block and turning the crankshaft.

Cheapest rebuilt I could find was $9800 + $2000 penalty for bad core return. Not worth it for this age machine.

Any recommendation on rod type?

Any one tried to put a different motor in these machines?

There was a 226 with a duetz in it for sale a while back. So I'm sure it's possible. The guy said it was a 80 hp motor.

Can't tell you how many of these machines I have seen with bad engines...ridiculous.

I have seen one with a John Deere motor in it...didn't look too service-friendly though.

I met a guy that has put in three 4bt cummins in the A series tire machines. He finds the cummins from industrial applications like a genset, uses mounts and bellhouses from excavators that came with the cummins. The engine is about 4" longer so the rear mount is actually tied into the back bumper, and is about 5" taller due to the turbo being on the left side of engine (and mounted above exhaust intake) and intake pipe crossing over the top to meet turbo. I suppose the intake could be routed around the back of the engine with the exhaust manifold flipped with turbo below it, but that setup seems to create servicibility problems.

The perkins weighs a bit less, so the cummins acts like a counterweight, but is 105 hp - so it's plenty of power. Top rpm is different..maybe two hundred with Perkins being around 2600 and 4bt being around 2400, so top speed is affected by about 1 mph. Can get a different spring for the I pump that will take it up to 3k.

Family Man said:

Just found this thread while looking for a used Block for a 2002 Cat 262 2.9 liter turbo. Looks like I a get to join the crowd. A employee was running the machine at idle when it started knocking and died.

Oil pump sheared off just like in some previous pictures. The connecting rod on #4 cylinder came out the side of block similar to some of the other pictures posted.

I'm unable to locate a used motor or short block so I'm going to try welding up the block and turning the crankshaft.



Cheapest rebuilt I could find was $9800 + $2000 penalty for bad core return. Not worth it for this age machine.

Any recommendation on rod type?

Any one tried to put a different motor in these machines?

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Most engine builders I have spoken with are around $4500 to 5500 to rebuild. Most of them are very familiar with this engine too.

The Cummins is what I was looking at before I made the deal I did. I found they were readily available in old delivery trucks like step vans that could be bought cheap. As you mentioned the engine is quite a bit bigger which provides some engineering headaches. I'd love to see pics of a conversion if possible.

Well Im not so sure about Perkins engines now . I worked on a lot of Allis Chalmers 715 hoes and mostly only had to do jug and piston kits . Never seemed to have a problem . Was a BIT CH to pull the old sleeves and freeze the new ones to put back in . But all was good . Sounds like the smaller engines you gents are talking about

I read through this thread and saw the 2.2L come up a few times, is that referring to the 404C-22? Just curious as I have one at 1950 hours right now.

Will try to get you some pics, Steve.

Seems like a big headache considering the value of the skid steer, I think I would seriously just junk it, or if your lucky enough, trade out before your engine takes a dump. You would think that someone would have put together a class action lawsuit on this by now.

If you have the time and money, an oil sample test at the Cat lab might tell your story.