Wheel Stud Thread Lubrication

dumptrucker said:

If DOT sees oil, or antiseeze on studs you will get a 100 dollar fine for every stud. You can't get a tire shop to put anything on the threads. DOT's theory is that if rust forms on thread it will prevent nut from loosening. It is not however against the law to oil the nut and washer only not the threads on nut. Tire shops say that is the way to get proper torque as the nut is not binding against the washer. We also check wheel torque once a month.

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That is an absolutely asinine law. A properly lubed nut, especially the seat area on an inner or outer Budd nut leads to much more consistent torque levels. Shows what a bunch of ignorant idiots "lawmakers" are.

People who oil the studs then torque to the normal amount shouldn't be near a truck in my opinion. Look at any bolt torque guide and there are different values between lubed and dry. I always check the diameter and tpi then torque to what my cheat sheet says weather lubed or dry

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dumptrucker said:

It is not however against the law to oil the nut and washer only not the threads on nut. Tire shops say that is the way to get proper torque as the nut is not binding against the washer. We also check wheel torque once a month.

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I used to be a tire tech, and I learned everythign from a guy that had been in the game for over 30 years. I had training from goodyear, prima, and a few other companies I have allready forgotten.

What dumptrucker said is accurate.

The best way to do things if you have rust on the stud, is take a wire brush, or a drill with a wire wheel, and clean it off. If it is rusted too badly, it needs to be replaced. Same goes for the nuts, we had a smaller round wire brush to run through them. One drop of oil so the nut can properly torque against the nut, and you are good to go. ALWAYS torque your wheels down ( no matter if on a heavy truck or a honda car) amd always get the wheels retorqued after 100ish kms.

It is the drivers duty up here in Canada to do a pretrip inspection, which involves checking that the lugnuts are not falling off.

I had a co worker overtorque a oiled set of studs one time, the driver lost a set of tires, and got fired from hauling logs to a certain mill up here. Its just worth it to do things right.

1466IH said:

People who oil the studs then torque to the normal amount shouldn't be near a truck in my opinion. Look at any bolt torque guide and there are different values between lubed and dry. I always check the diameter and tpi then torque to what my cheat sheet says weather lubed or dry

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Oops, I should have added the torque should be adjusted for light lube. And I wasnt promoting oil drooling everywhere. Most of us should know what we are doing after many years. The noobs are the dangerous ones.

1466IH said:

People who oil the studs then torque to the normal amount shouldn't be near a truck in my opinion. Look at any bolt torque guide and there are different values between lubed and dry. I always check the diameter and tpi then torque to what my cheat sheet says weather lubed or dry

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Agree 100% - however to me it depends if the wheel stud is black or plated (bright). Let me explain ........

1. What we usually call "black" bolts are more correctly referred to as "phosphate and oil coated". They have a light coating of oil - something like 5W or 10W - applied to them after manufacture to prevent them corroding while in storage, and more importantly to prevent them from corroding while in operation - because nobody really wants a bolt to fail in fatigue caused by corrosion. So the torque figure mentioned in any service manual for tightening this type of bolt is with a similar light coating of oil applied to it. No correction factors necessary in this case. My preference (and what we do with heavy equipment) is to have a shop rag soaked in hydraulic oil and simply wipe it around the studs after cleaning them and immediately before installing the wheel. The amount of oil transferred to the stud is minimal, just enough to make it look "damp" on the surface, there will be no oil dripping off it.

2. Bright studs, usually nickel plated, are not treated with lube at the time of manufacture because the plating protects them from corrosion or at least it should do. I would normally install nuts (so long as the nuts were also plated) on these studs dry so long as everything was clean. I'd clean them with a wire brush or similar.

For running nuts on to wheel studs the rattle gun would be set to minimum applying just enough torque to get everything seated properly and then hit every one with a torque wrench afterwards. I don't believe in re-torquing - if everything including the wheel rim, hub, base, & hardware was all clean in the first place and the correct procedure (+ calibrated torque tooling) was used there should be no need to go back and check everything again later because you did it right the first time. We actually used compressed air RAD tools to tighten wheel nuts and IMO they work extremely well and produce remarkably repeatable torque numbers.

Call me whatever you like but the wheel nuts on my personal vehicle are done up with a torque wrench ............. that's what comes of losing one back when I was 19 years old ............

The comments made by our N. American members about lubing studs and the authorities' viewpoints leave me quite frankly amazed and shaking my head that those who make policies like these are actually allowed near anything mechanical.

;
I don't understand how you lose a "SET" of tires...

Since inner and outer have their own lugs...
.
Gotta Fly...

Preppypyro said:

I had a co worker overtorque a oiled set of studs one time, the driver lost a set of tires, and got fired from hauling logs to a certain mill up here. Its just worth it to do things right.

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planecrazzzy said:

;
I don't understand how you lose a "SET" of tires...

Since inner and outer have their own lugs...

Gotta Fly...

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It's pretty common, with Budd wheels like you are talking about, if the studs break off, the two rims will be bolted together on the inner nut, clamped between the base flange of inner nut and the outer nut. With hub piloted and Dayton wheels, a wheel bearing failure will cause the loss of the hub and both rims and tires. A stud failure will cause the loss of both tires, they just won't stay together.

Well... Now your talking Stud Failure...
.
Hmmm
.
Gotta Fly...
.
Most Budd wheels I know are bolted separate...
.

Budd (stud piloted) wheels use a stud, then a rim, then an inner nut with inside and outside threads, then the outer rim, then a normal, inside threaded nut.

Hub piloted wheels use a stud, then both rims go on, then a normal type nut with a swivel washer attached.

Dayton wheels use a spoked hub, inner rim, spacer ring, outer rim,wedge and the most normal looking nut of all.

I don't remember meeting a highway wheel setup where the rims are bolted on independently.

Yair . . . interesting comments continue. As I have mentioned up thread I believe a couple of rechecks after running are fundamental to safety.

As mentioned and practiced by Nige retorquing may not be necessary if every thing was done perfect in the first place.

In my experience "perfection" along the track is in very short supply . . . try changing a pair of inners on a two rows of eight float under a D8 and it's pissing down rain . . . or change a set of ten hundred twentys under two decks of mooing ****ters that have been on oats . . . that's the real world fellers and under such conditions messing round with freaking torque wrenches would be the last thing on my mind.

Tightening the studs and checking them a couple of times over the next hundred kays has served me well and I don't think the fundamental physics of the problem have changed except for the better with the new style wheels . . . a bit of dust or grit in there behind it though and all the fancy torque wrench settings count for nothing.

By all means use one if you need to fulfil statuary obligations but don't be blinded by the technicality, wheel studs are a pretty simple concept and (I believe) nothing gives peace of mind like a couple of checks for tightness down the track.

I should also add that coming out of the dark ages my experience relates to I think what are known as "Dayton" wheels on duals and the concept of using a torque wrench on such a wedge concept that can be tight but running out of line is a pretty crazy notion . . . in my opinion.

On such wheels a marker . . . the common one was a four pound lump hammer . . . was placed on the ground and the studs pulled up in sequence with reference to the wheel just brushing the hammer handle to ensure the wheel set running true.

Any way while this is happening the bull dust comes showering down from the inner in the breeze and it gets on the wedges . . . any way you get my drift . . . apart from ideal tyre court situations if you depend on torqueing wheels and no checking after you are a menace on the road . . . with lube or without lube on the threads. (big grin)

Cheers.

When I removed the Budd nuts they "jumped" every time they gave when undoing them. The same when re-torqing. I see this as a massive issue where the threads with that behavior are going to gall and fail. The solution from a wise and knowledgable local was to use graphite. Makes sense. Still a "dry" thread as required.

Thoughts??

I still work the basis of a very thin coating of light oil, as I said before applied to the studs using a rag soaked in it, and a torque wrench. I've never had a wheel come loose doing them that way - ever - and I olny ever tighten them once. That's not to say they are not inspected further down the road, but the inspection is visual looking for loose nuts or signs of wheels fretting on the studs.

You can always rely on Nige for a great and prompt reply. Thanks again. I too agree that a thin surface coat of oil would let the tq happen in a progressive manner rather than loading up and having big movements.

Nige, thanks for your thoughts on the zincless hydraulic fluid, I eventually went with the Hitachi 4000Hr fluid. I was amazed that it was crystal clear.

Art_H said:

Nige, thanks for your thoughts on the zincless hydraulic fluid, I eventually went with the Hitachi 4000Hr fluid. I was amazed that it was crystal clear.

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And cost you an arm and a leg no doubt .........